Joel Garbon - Are Aliens Real

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This.
Is Urantia radio?

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Streaming the 5th epical
Revelation to the world.

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And welcome back to another
edition of the Urantia Radio

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Podcast.
I'm so happy that you stopped by

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and I I want to thank all those
who've been sending wonderful

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emails to the program, making
their suggestions for our

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Personality Spotlight series.
I hope you enjoyed our story of

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Noah and the preceding episode.
If you haven't checked it out,

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please do.
It's a wonderful episode, very

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heartfelt, and I think you'll
learn a lot from it.

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And also this in the next
episode, we're going to take a

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look at Emmanuel and his
relationship to Christ and our

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Earth history.
So that'll be up next on our

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Spotlight series where we talk
about certain personalities.

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And if you have a suggestion,
we'd love to hear from you.

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You can go to our website,
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or send us an e-mail at
urantiabookradio@gmail.com.

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And Speaking of the website, new
feature that I've added recently

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where I take all of the episodes
and, and they're now organized

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by subject.
So if you have a particular

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subject in mind that you want to
know what the Urantia book says

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about it or deals with it, the
urantiaradio.org website is a

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great resource and it's only
getting better.

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And of course, we archive all of
our podcasts there, along with

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the various podcast players,
including our home base, which

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is Spotify.
And we thank those folks too for

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hosting our website.
So now we're going to talk with

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Joel Garban.
Joel joined us a few years ago

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to talk about his work in in
bringing the Urantia book to the

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UFO community.
Joe is also an avid student of

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the 5th epical Revelation.
And there's been some recent

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news about the US government
expecting to give some

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disclosure on what they know and
what they can tell us about

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extraterrestrials and aliens
from other other possible

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worlds.
So we'll see.

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Don't hold your breath, but I
know that Joel Garvin has a lot

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to say about this.
So let's bring him into the

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Urantia Radio podcast and talk
about all of this.

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And I'm very honored to have on
again Joel Garvin, long time

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Urantia book reader, student,
and also a bit of an expert on

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the Ufology arena and in
conversations.

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Joel, it's good to have you
back.

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And in your efforts to introduce
the Urantia book into the UFO

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community, how is that going so
far?

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And what do you make of the
latest sort of revelations that

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are coming out from our
government about releasing new

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information about these aliens?
What do you make of all that?

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Well, hey, Jim, good to be on
with you again.

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Yeah, I'm finding that there's a
lot of traction being gained in

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the interest in the UFO
disclosure movement, primarily

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because we're seeing it appear
all over major media now.

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You know, there's all kinds of
hearings that have been

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conducted in the last couple
years at the congressional

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level.
Whistleblowers have been coming

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forward out of the military and
intelligence communities.

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And a lot of those revelations
have been really startling

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because they've been dealing not
with speculative issues, but

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they've been dealing with actual
direct recovery of crashed

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craft, UFOs and the occupants of
those crashes, which, you know,

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supposedly are beings from other
planets.

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They've been referring to these
generally as non human

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intelligence.
However, I think what is more

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likely the case, as the Urantia
book portrays, these are non

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Earth humans because the human
physical type we know from the

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Urantia book encompasses a wide
range of of variations, but

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still has the same general
physical dimensions of, you

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know, how we think of as humans.
You know, we got one head, two

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eyes, you know, two hands and
such.

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So, you know, I think it's
likely what we're, what we're

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dealing with here in any of
these revelations that are

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coming forth.
They are humans, but from other

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planets.
And it's fascinating.

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And I think it's really
capturing the imagination of

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folks in all different, you
know, types of, of groups and

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paradigms.
Certainly within the UV

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community, you know, people are
having to to think about this in

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deeper ways.
And it's a just a fascinating

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topic.
I've been interested in this, as

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you know, for quite a few
decades.

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I have very close relationships
with many of the major UFOET

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researchers and I'm talking
serious folks who bring a high

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degree of scrutiny and
investigation to this.

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I've met with several of the
whistleblowers who have been,

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you know, portrayed on, you
know, on various programs and

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interviews and documentaries and
things like that.

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And I've also had my own direct
personal experiences, you know,

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with the the UFO issue.
But in what I mean by that is

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actual sightings that that I, my
family, other friends that we've

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had on numerous occasions that I
can't quite explain other than

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to say, you know, these have
been, you know, quite remarkable

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sightings.
And there are other experiences

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related to that that I would
just simply say are, you know,

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personally profound.
Well, mystical experiences or

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paranormal experiences, you
know, there's lots of words you

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could use to describe it, but
there's something going on, You

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know, do I believe that there is
life on other planets?

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Absolutely.
And of course, the Your Answer

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book corroborates that because
it, it states very bluntly that

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we live in a highly inhabited
universe, not just with, you

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know, very simple forms of life,
but with, with, you know, life

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of, of intelligent will
capacity, the ability to make

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decisions, moral decisions, the
ability to have a worship

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experience of the Creator.
You know, so we are not alone by

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any stretch.
There's all kinds of, of

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information there that goes back
in various wisdom traditions and

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I would even say archaeological
evidence that we have had the

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presence of such beings who are
not native to this planet for

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thousands of years.
As the rancher book says, you

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know, we've had a, you know,
probably life seeded on this

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planet by beings from other
worlds and, you know, call them

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the life carriers or, you know,
use some other term from those.

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But it seems to be the plan and
purpose of God that life gets

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established on all kinds of
planets, millions upon millions

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of planets.
You know, once those fears have

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geophysically stabilized and
they're, you know, have such

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atmosphere or other conditions
that are stable enough to harbor

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life implantation and and
nurture life along a long

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evolutionary path until it gives
rise to the human order of

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being.
And, you know, so it's a

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fascinating story and I think
it's really captured the

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interest of a lot of people.
So.

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So maybe that can be the
starting point for our

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discussion here.
Well, that's, that's a tree with

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a lot of branches.
And well, let's take one of

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those branches.
What do you think the Urantia

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book offers to those people who,
like you and me, who've been

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interested in this subject for a
long time, this idea of aliens,

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ancient and otherwise?
What do you think?

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What new information do they
bring?

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And you sort of touched on some
of it, but elaborate a little

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bit deeper, if you would, for a
ufologist.

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And also, what reactions have
you received from people who did

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not know about what the Arantia
book teaches about

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extraterrestrial life?
So there's two questions there.

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Yeah, it's a great, it's a great
couple of questions.

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I think first what the Urantia
book does is it puts things in

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perspective, starting with there
is a divine plan for life of of

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the human order of being that is
endowed with the ability to

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choose to do the will of God in
an incredible ascendant journey

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that starts on a physical planet
with a physical body and then

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evolves forward through a number
of of different experiences that

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you know, our our first physical
on the nativity planet then

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moves through this long,
morantial stage of life through

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many, many different planets.
And then it enters upon a

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spiritual part of that ascendant
journey that is on a much

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higher, more glorious level.
But all of these things in the

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divine plan, all of these stages
are meant to take the

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evolutionary human being from a
relatively low order of

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existence to an exalted level of
existence where we're capable of

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knowing God, having our own
creative experience that

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contributes something very
unique and very important to the

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growth of the experiential
deity, the Supreme being.

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We get to participate in that
drama.

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And, and the Rancher book
portrays this in such a

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beautiful way that makes sense.
And it, it very seamlessly

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incorporates the concept of a
highly inhabited universe on

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different levels of being from
our low level as evolutionary

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will creatures through the
angelic order of being and then

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the the other higher sons of God
and to to beings that would be

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very difficult for us to
understand.

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But are all part of this, this
incredible and vast family, even

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a a constellation of beings that
are all part of the, you know,

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the the plan of the creators and
it's beautiful.

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It's hopeful.
It lays it out in ways that are

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understandable.
Otherwise it it wouldn't have

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been put down in a book that can
be read by humans.

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And I think it really lends a
great degree of order and sense

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to this whole field of Ufology
in a way that that is going to

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become increasingly important,
Jim, because the, the way, you

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know, when you look at the
various religions on the planet,

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let's just start at 3, the
religion level, there are very

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few religious institutions, or
let's say even the Christian

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denominations, very few that are
prepared to deal with this issue

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at the, at the doctrinal level
and the cultural level, because

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it's so startling.
And because I would say the

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emphasis in many cases has been,
well, humanity on this planet,

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we are it.
We're the pinnacle of creation.

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There's nothing beyond us.
And so to suddenly have thrust

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upon us a, the, the potential
disclosure from our government

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at the executive level, at the
presidential level that says,

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hey, not only are
extraterrestrials real, but they

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are here and they are, they are
actively impacting what is going

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on with this planet.
And that there are plans under

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way and there are recoveries and
and all kinds of things going on

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that can be quite shocking to
folks and it can upset them even

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in their religious faith.
And so I would say the churches

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are woefully unprepared for
this.

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The Urantia book is going to
become increasingly important to

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settle things down and say, hey,
look here for 100 years has been

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the most remarkable reference
book that lays this all out in

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the most beautiful way.
And that portrays our part in

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this is one part of something
that's really vast and it's

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quite comprehensive.
But we don't have to be afraid

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of this because I can guarantee
you, Jim, the the narrative that

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is already being portrayed and
will and will likely continue to

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be portrayed from some elements
within this, let's just call it

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the disclosure narrative.
A lot of that portrayal is going

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to be quite dark and negative
and going to it's going to still

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fear.
And your answer book is going to

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be an extraordinarily valuable
counter to that narrative of

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fear.
Let me ask you this, do you

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think, what do you think the
government is going to reveal

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and what is the limit of what
they know?

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Well, so far what we have seen
and, and by we, I mean those who

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have been actively engaged in
this disclosure effort and in

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advocating for government
disclosure with great

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transparency.
What we have seen so far is that

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the government agencies
themselves have been anything

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but transparent.
They have, they have done

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little, if any disclosure that
they've been little drips and

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drabs and really have not, you
know, these, these advocate

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efforts have not shaken loose
the really good stuff as far as

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you know, all of the the
information that has been

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collected over decades by the
military and intelligence

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community.
You know, there have been crash

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retrievals, there have been the
recovery of of the occupants of

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those vehicles, some deceased,
some live.

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And so just imagine what exists
in the current archives of, of

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the government and, and you
know, whether it's at the, the

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military level, the intelligence
community level or the military

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industrial contractor level,
because each, all of these are,

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are intertwined as far as, as
you know, the, the really good

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stuff, as far as the evidence
here.

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And they don't want to share
that.

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There's a number of reasons why
that is the case, but what we,

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00:16:18,080 --> 00:16:20,360
what can be said for sure at
this point, and the

227
00:16:20,360 --> 00:16:25,440
whistleblowers will all say
this, is that the, it, it's been

228
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:31,680
like pulling teeth to get any
real serious acknowledgement and

229
00:16:31,680 --> 00:16:35,800
any real serious transparent
disclosure from the government

230
00:16:35,800 --> 00:16:38,360
entities.
So, you know, what is my

231
00:16:38,360 --> 00:16:42,520
expectation of what we're going
to see even in the face of the

232
00:16:42,520 --> 00:16:48,000
president just today saying that
he plans to call for the release

233
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:51,200
of all information on the UFOET
topic.

234
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:55,800
My expectation is that it's
still going to be a very

235
00:16:55,800 --> 00:17:00,280
controlled disclosure and only
of some very limited

236
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:02,640
information.
They're not going to turn over

237
00:17:02,640 --> 00:17:07,319
the crown jewels, which would be
like, oh, hey, look here, here,

238
00:17:07,319 --> 00:17:11,280
we're going to put on display
some of the, the, the crashed

239
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:16,680
UFO vehicles themselves for the
public to see.

240
00:17:16,680 --> 00:17:19,599
They're not going to do that.
They're not going to show the,

241
00:17:19,680 --> 00:17:23,000
the high technology.
They're unlikely to show

242
00:17:23,000 --> 00:17:26,920
anything to do with the advanced
energy and propulsion systems

243
00:17:27,240 --> 00:17:31,160
that, that power those craft and
that allow them to travel

244
00:17:31,160 --> 00:17:33,360
interstellar distances.
OK.

245
00:17:33,360 --> 00:17:39,600
They're not likely to show any,
any signs of the the occupants

246
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:41,720
of those vehicles that have been
recovered.

247
00:17:42,040 --> 00:17:46,760
They're very unlikely to show,
hey, here's here's live video of

248
00:17:46,760 --> 00:17:50,360
perhaps some extraterrestrial
beings themselves.

249
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:54,000
They're unlikely to do that.
Why?

250
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,720
Why are they unlikely to do
that?

251
00:17:56,000 --> 00:18:00,200
I think it has to do a lot with
the control paradigm, you know,

252
00:18:00,240 --> 00:18:04,160
and this kind of global
domination scheme that, that we

253
00:18:04,160 --> 00:18:09,720
see being played out on so many
levels in geopolitics today, you

254
00:18:09,720 --> 00:18:11,920
know, and that's been going on
for a long, long time.

255
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:15,920
So there are folks embedded in
this and I'd have been embedded

256
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,400
for, for generations that try to
keep the secrets.

257
00:18:20,480 --> 00:18:24,360
And, and they're, they're using
the technological developments

258
00:18:24,680 --> 00:18:28,560
that may have occurred from,
from direct access through

259
00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:33,920
retrieval and also the back
engineering programs to develop

260
00:18:33,920 --> 00:18:36,520
this technology, you know,
through, through, you know,

261
00:18:36,520 --> 00:18:41,240
human examination and, and
engineer and, and all of that.

262
00:18:41,560 --> 00:18:46,320
But but why, why wouldn't that
to be directly shared with

263
00:18:46,320 --> 00:18:52,680
humanity at large to upstep, you
know, our own societies, for

264
00:18:52,680 --> 00:18:56,200
instance, you know, address
climate change, address the

265
00:18:56,200 --> 00:19:00,440
energy shortages, you know,
polluting fossil fuels or

266
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:04,240
whatever, clean up the
environment, you know, grow food

267
00:19:04,280 --> 00:19:08,040
everywhere so that so there's
no, you know, no lack of

268
00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:10,520
nutrition for any human being on
this planet.

269
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:12,800
Why won't they share those
things out?

270
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:15,120
Right?
Those are great questions.

271
00:19:15,120 --> 00:19:19,920
They are moral questions, but
we, we, we know that there are,

272
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:24,680
are highly placed factions that
for the longest time have been,

273
00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:29,080
you know, basically using
technology to advance their own

274
00:19:29,080 --> 00:19:33,120
agendas, which, which often are,
you know, domination and control

275
00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:35,160
agendas.
And when you're in the national

276
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,480
security state, like our
military and intelligence

277
00:19:38,480 --> 00:19:43,720
communities are, they look, they
look at the world through a very

278
00:19:43,720 --> 00:19:47,720
different lens and paradigm than
the average person on the street

279
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:49,800
does.
And and so we have to contend

280
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:51,720
with that as part of the the
current reality.

281
00:19:52,000 --> 00:19:53,280
All right.
So let me ask you this.

282
00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:57,280
Do you think that is it a
prerequisite of of

283
00:19:58,320 --> 00:20:01,320
extraterrestrials that they are
probably much more advanced?

284
00:20:01,800 --> 00:20:04,000
Then we are.
And if they are, would they, do

285
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,160
you suppose, would they know
many of the truths that we've

286
00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:11,280
been recently been given in the
Urantia book, this idea of, of a

287
00:20:11,280 --> 00:20:15,480
structural government, Jerusalem
being our system capital, those

288
00:20:15,480 --> 00:20:17,920
kind?
Will they know some of these

289
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:20,720
things that we're being told in
the Urantia book, do you think?

290
00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:26,000
Well, that's a great question.
Now I would say this right off

291
00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:30,200
the bat, any, any beings that
have travelled here from other

292
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:34,360
planets by definition would be
more technologically advanced

293
00:20:34,840 --> 00:20:40,320
than we are here in our science
and technology and our

294
00:20:40,320 --> 00:20:45,480
understanding of, you know,
universal laws and principles,

295
00:20:45,880 --> 00:20:49,040
certainly the the principles of
physics that apply on a larger

296
00:20:49,040 --> 00:20:52,040
level.
So they would know, for example,

297
00:20:52,040 --> 00:20:56,040
Christ.
Well, so so I'll just start

298
00:20:56,040 --> 00:20:58,760
here.
Technological advancement is

299
00:20:58,760 --> 00:21:04,360
only one element in this.
What you're now asking about is

300
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:09,120
what about spiritual
enlightenment?

301
00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:15,000
Would they automatically be more
more spiritually advanced than

302
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,160
humans on our planet?
I would say there's a high

303
00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:22,640
probability that they are.
And that actually was something

304
00:21:22,640 --> 00:21:26,840
that even the Catholic Church
had addressed some decades ago

305
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:31,600
when a spokesperson for the
Vatican was talking about, you

306
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:36,160
know, well, if if
extraterrestrial life visited

307
00:21:36,160 --> 00:21:40,720
this planet, would it be us that
were baptizing them or should

308
00:21:40,720 --> 00:21:43,640
they be baptizing us?
Because the, you know, the

309
00:21:43,640 --> 00:21:48,280
implication there is would
advanced extraterrestrial

310
00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:54,920
civilizations have a a much
better understanding of

311
00:21:54,920 --> 00:21:59,120
spiritual reality?
Would they know God to a better

312
00:21:59,120 --> 00:22:01,840
degree than than earth humanity
would?

313
00:22:02,040 --> 00:22:04,840
And I would say the
probabilities of that are yes.

314
00:22:05,360 --> 00:22:07,760
I would imagine they have to
follow rules too.

315
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:10,560
I mean, I'm thinking in terms
of, you know, they would, would,

316
00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:15,920
would, would an extraterrestrial
planet need permission from,

317
00:22:15,920 --> 00:22:20,320
say, Laniferge, the system
Sovereign in order to make

318
00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:26,200
contact with us or Urantia?
Would they need that sort of

319
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:28,160
permission?
Because you just shouldn't be

320
00:22:28,160 --> 00:22:31,360
able to Willy nilly go wherever
you want to and violate the

321
00:22:31,360 --> 00:22:35,120
Prime Directive, now would you?
Well, that's good that you bring

322
00:22:35,120 --> 00:22:38,840
up the Prime Directive because I
think in many ways the the

323
00:22:38,920 --> 00:22:44,920
Urantia book speaks to that in
certain ways because it lays out

324
00:22:45,080 --> 00:22:50,880
that there is a divine plan in a
framework that assumes some

325
00:22:50,880 --> 00:22:57,640
moral duty and responsibility as
far as how different orders of

326
00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:03,560
being execute their particular
duties, you know, at their

327
00:23:03,640 --> 00:23:07,160
level.
OK, so when you look at someone

328
00:23:07,160 --> 00:23:11,000
like a, you know what the Ranch
book calls the system sovereign,

329
00:23:11,680 --> 00:23:16,480
like Lana Forge or like, you
know, his predecessor Lucifer

330
00:23:16,480 --> 00:23:20,960
would have had, or those who
are, you know, called the the

331
00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:24,280
planetary Prince, you know,
which are basically have the

332
00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:28,160
executive, you know,
responsibilities for a whole

333
00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,240
inhabited planet.
You know, there are expectations

334
00:23:32,320 --> 00:23:36,080
of, of high moral duty and
accountability.

335
00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:41,520
So, so yes, you know, we would
expect that that

336
00:23:41,520 --> 00:23:44,840
extraterrestrial beings would
recognize that there is a, a

337
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,600
hierarchy of responsibility.
And, and, you know, it's kind of

338
00:23:49,600 --> 00:23:55,200
like if you have the older
children in a family, there's

339
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:57,520
more expected of them than for
the young ones.

340
00:23:57,640 --> 00:24:01,520
Or if you have the parents in
the family or you have the CEO

341
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:05,160
of a, of a corporation there,
there are different levels of,

342
00:24:05,240 --> 00:24:07,480
of accountability and
responsibility.

343
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,480
So I think, yeah, it's natural
to expect that that, you know,

344
00:24:11,480 --> 00:24:16,760
extraterrestrials who are here
who have more technological and

345
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:21,880
spiritual advancement compared
to us, that they would know more

346
00:24:21,880 --> 00:24:25,840
about the workings of system
governance, of universal

347
00:24:25,840 --> 00:24:29,680
governance and and, you know,
presumably all the way up to,

348
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:32,320
you know, the Paradise center of
all things.

349
00:24:32,600 --> 00:24:34,160
Yeah.
Because you know, The thing is

350
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:36,640
they had to get permit and I'm
talking about the midwayers.

351
00:24:37,000 --> 00:24:43,240
They had to actually petition to
get the whatever was together to

352
00:24:43,240 --> 00:24:44,840
be able to produce the Urantia
book.

353
00:24:44,840 --> 00:24:48,360
So that was my permission and
there were certain mandates that

354
00:24:48,360 --> 00:24:50,680
were put into place.
So I would logically assume this

355
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:55,040
would be how they would deal
with any kind of foreign agency

356
00:24:55,040 --> 00:24:59,520
coming in and and either trying
to make us more advanced or to

357
00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:01,160
prevent us from killing
ourselves.

358
00:25:02,080 --> 00:25:05,040
But I want to go back to another
thing because you you kind of

359
00:25:05,040 --> 00:25:07,760
say something important.
So if they announce, if our own

360
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:11,520
government announces that we did
get some technology from an

361
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:16,360
ancient race, a non earth race,
and you said yourself there was

362
00:25:16,360 --> 00:25:20,000
probably some dead bodies that
were recovered from some of

363
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:25,520
these crash sites, maybe a few
that survived. 1 wonders if

364
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,720
those entities or agencies would
be upset with the fact that

365
00:25:30,720 --> 00:25:34,120
there is no transparency of what
they were able to bring to our

366
00:25:34,120 --> 00:25:37,360
world and it was sort of Co
opted by the United States

367
00:25:37,360 --> 00:25:39,520
government.
Do you think that they would be

368
00:25:39,520 --> 00:25:44,360
angry at us for that?
I think that, yes, that they

369
00:25:44,360 --> 00:25:49,720
would be at least
extraordinarily disappointed.

370
00:25:50,280 --> 00:25:56,440
You know, we use the word angry.
Hard to say that they would have

371
00:25:56,440 --> 00:26:00,360
that type of emotional response
because they may understand

372
00:26:01,520 --> 00:26:07,560
human psychology on this planet
to a greater degree than how we

373
00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:13,560
have, how we tend to, to think
about human conduct here.

374
00:26:13,560 --> 00:26:17,040
You know, we, we think, well,
it's just normal for us to, to

375
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:21,960
to to be angry and to be
indignant enough that we might

376
00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,560
take up arms against each other
and, and things like that where

377
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:30,160
we become violent, you know, in
our response to each other,

378
00:26:30,160 --> 00:26:33,600
even, you know, to our fellow
humans, where is that might be

379
00:26:33,600 --> 00:26:37,880
something that, you know, they
have evolved way beyond that.

380
00:26:38,320 --> 00:26:43,640
And so they might have more like
some sympathy, empathy, you

381
00:26:43,640 --> 00:26:47,240
know, kind of, you know,
disappointment that those who

382
00:26:47,240 --> 00:26:50,800
supposedly are in leadership
positions within our government,

383
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:59,200
our military, that, that we take
more of a I fear based approach

384
00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:03,400
or, or even even, yeah, even
Violet approach or selfish

385
00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:07,040
approach, whatever that, that
they know that they're dealing

386
00:27:07,040 --> 00:27:14,800
here on this planet with a, a
more immature civilization or a,

387
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,920
a regressive civilization
compared to what might be the

388
00:27:18,920 --> 00:27:23,200
norm, you know, in our, in our
universe here.

389
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:26,960
So, you know, if we're thinking
of them as potentially elder

390
00:27:26,960 --> 00:27:33,360
brothers who are being sent here
for various purposes, it's, you

391
00:27:33,360 --> 00:27:37,880
know, not that purpose might be
anything from just research to

392
00:27:37,880 --> 00:27:41,160
see, hey, there's unique species
of life here.

393
00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:44,640
They might be doing some
reconnaissance to see, well, how

394
00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,880
is human civilization
progressing over time?

395
00:27:47,880 --> 00:27:52,320
You know, so some periodic check
insurance or there might be

396
00:27:53,080 --> 00:27:58,360
resource arrangements, maybe
some of those those early

397
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,960
missions and and crash
retrievals and and interaction

398
00:28:01,960 --> 00:28:04,880
with our government.
Maybe it had to do a trade like,

399
00:28:04,880 --> 00:28:09,240
hey, you have certain material
resources there that could help

400
00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:12,600
our civilization.
We have some technology that can

401
00:28:12,600 --> 00:28:14,680
certainly benefit Earth
humanity.

402
00:28:15,080 --> 00:28:17,560
And so there might be some
practical things, you might even

403
00:28:17,560 --> 00:28:23,120
call it economic arrangements,
things like that, you know, or

404
00:28:23,120 --> 00:28:27,480
they might be ambassadorial
missions that hey, look, we

405
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,040
observe Earth humanity.
It seems like you're getting

406
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:34,200
ready to deal with the fact that
we that there is a highly

407
00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:39,440
inhabited universe and, and
you're on the cusp of emerging

408
00:28:39,440 --> 00:28:42,880
into that because now you have
technology that can take you

409
00:28:42,880 --> 00:28:45,680
into space.
And oh, by the way, you also

410
00:28:45,680 --> 00:28:51,160
have weapons technology that
becomes now a threat to other

411
00:28:51,160 --> 00:28:53,640
planets because you can launch
it into space.

412
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:59,520
So there may be ambassadorial
aspects to the the ET presence

413
00:28:59,520 --> 00:29:03,520
here on our planet.
Now, in those in those potential

414
00:29:03,520 --> 00:29:08,440
ambassadorial missions, have
they actually been dealing with

415
00:29:08,440 --> 00:29:13,120
the most mature and most
spiritually advanced elements of

416
00:29:13,120 --> 00:29:18,120
human society or have they been
dealing with a more, let's call

417
00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:25,640
it narcissistic, selfish, fear
based quote UN quote leadership

418
00:29:26,040 --> 00:29:29,080
here.
I'm I'm concerned that that's

419
00:29:29,080 --> 00:29:33,920
more likely what has been the
case that the the interactions

420
00:29:34,200 --> 00:29:39,160
on any official level have not
been with the most mature and

421
00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:44,080
advanced humans here, but
they've been with a a smaller

422
00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:47,720
subset that are part of the,
let's call it the national

423
00:29:47,720 --> 00:29:52,720
security state or those who who
tend to favor domination and

424
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,840
control paradigms over
civilizational uplift.

425
00:29:57,720 --> 00:29:59,440
Well, that's a lot to chew on,
Joel.

426
00:29:59,960 --> 00:30:04,800
I, I fear the the worst because
they would look at us as almost

427
00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:09,800
like a Chicago in the 1920s, a
bunch of thugs, a bunch of, a

428
00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:13,880
bunch of gangsters, you know, So
you know, it's, it's

429
00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:16,280
speculative.
I, I'm, I'm guessing you don't

430
00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:20,640
think that these agencies are
seraphic or angelic in nature,

431
00:30:21,880 --> 00:30:24,400
but more towards the fact that
they are coming from other

432
00:30:24,400 --> 00:30:28,920
advanced worlds, not necessarily
tied to the spiritual economy of

433
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:31,480
things.
You understand the nature of

434
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:33,080
that question.
In other words, these are

435
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:38,200
evolutionary beings that we're
dealing with, not spiritual on

436
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,080
high orders of being.
Yeah.

437
00:30:42,160 --> 00:30:48,880
So my perspective on this and
it's, it's been after a, a long

438
00:30:48,880 --> 00:30:51,840
consideration of this over the
last couple decades.

439
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:56,240
I think primarily what we're
dealing with here.

440
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,520
Certainly when we are talking
about, you know, crash

441
00:30:59,520 --> 00:31:04,880
retrievals and, and
ambassadorial missions or trade

442
00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:10,880
commissions or celestial
observers to see how life is

443
00:31:10,880 --> 00:31:15,000
progressing or, or you know,
taking genetic samples, things

444
00:31:15,000 --> 00:31:17,680
like that.
I think in those cases we are

445
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:23,120
dealing with with actual human
type, OK, you know, flesh and

446
00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:27,320
blood, you know, type of beings,
not seraphic beings.

447
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:31,480
We're not talking about angels
here or, or other, you know,

448
00:31:31,480 --> 00:31:36,080
high spirit beings.
Now, that doesn't mean that

449
00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:43,600
there is not the participation
or oversight of angelic beings

450
00:31:43,640 --> 00:31:48,480
and and other high spiritual
types, because I think likely

451
00:31:48,480 --> 00:31:52,720
that is the case.
In fact, I think that's probably

452
00:31:52,720 --> 00:31:58,760
the more difficult and complex
part of the whole narrative.

453
00:31:59,080 --> 00:32:03,200
And you do hear this in a lot of
the debates that go on within

454
00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,200
the, the, the UFOET research
circles.

455
00:32:06,200 --> 00:32:13,320
There's always this very
sometimes contentious debate

456
00:32:13,320 --> 00:32:16,840
about, OK, so are we, are we
dealing with physical beings?

457
00:32:16,840 --> 00:32:19,800
Are we dealing with
interdimensional beings, even

458
00:32:19,800 --> 00:32:22,560
though no one can give a good
definition of what that means,

459
00:32:22,880 --> 00:32:25,880
You know, are are we dealing
with sometimes with what are

460
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,440
called ultra terrestrial beings,
which again, what kind of fuzzy

461
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:33,960
definition is provided to that?
But but again, I think what is

462
00:32:33,960 --> 00:32:37,560
implied is that these aren't all
flesh and blood, You know,

463
00:32:37,560 --> 00:32:41,400
there, you know, we know from
the the Your Answer book that

464
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:47,440
there's a wide spectrum of life
on what they term the morantial

465
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:53,160
levels and a wide spectrum of
life on the spiritual levels,

466
00:32:53,760 --> 00:32:58,960
both of which are transcendent
to the purely physical level,

467
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:04,240
You know, which we find in our
own experience as, as you know,

468
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,720
humans born on our nativity
world, you know, walking around

469
00:33:08,720 --> 00:33:13,360
in a body suit, you know, that
is composed flesh and blood, you

470
00:33:13,360 --> 00:33:17,160
know, so, so I do think that
that while most of what we're

471
00:33:17,160 --> 00:33:21,040
dealing with here as far as
physical evidence goes, meaning,

472
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:27,080
you know, actual craft and then
any the occupants in the bodies

473
00:33:27,080 --> 00:33:30,760
recovered such an is that we're
dealing with physical beings.

474
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:34,840
But I do also think there's
interplay, you know, with, with

475
00:33:34,920 --> 00:33:38,960
a wider order of beings that are
not necessarily corporeal.

476
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:42,400
You know, you mentioned
interdimensional beings.

477
00:33:42,880 --> 00:33:46,520
I would classify A Melchizedek
as an interdimensional because

478
00:33:46,520 --> 00:33:50,040
they can, they can assume three
different states of being.

479
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:54,360
So that is an interesting thing
that you stated about inter.

480
00:33:54,680 --> 00:33:57,920
And we know that Melchizedek,
particularly the Melchizedek's,

481
00:33:58,080 --> 00:34:01,960
the 12 receivers are technically
watching over us.

482
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,400
So I think you're on the right
track on that.

483
00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:07,120
Let me ask you this and
unfortunately we're running out

484
00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:09,199
of time, but if you want to
respond to that, please do.

485
00:34:09,440 --> 00:34:13,679
I just have one final question.
Do you think that the Urantia

486
00:34:13,679 --> 00:34:18,679
book satisfies the ancient
question of the Anunnaki or

487
00:34:18,679 --> 00:34:22,600
these other groups, perhaps some
of them mentioned in the Book of

488
00:34:22,639 --> 00:34:25,280
Enoch and others?
Do you think that the Urantia

489
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:29,320
book satisfies the question of
ancient aliens among us and

490
00:34:29,320 --> 00:34:31,520
their influence and impact on
early man?

491
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:38,760
Oh, I think it does a great job
of putting some light on some of

492
00:34:38,760 --> 00:34:43,400
those questions there about the
Anunnaki, the Nephilim, all of

493
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:45,440
that.
You know, a lot of the Genesis

494
00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:49,920
account references to these,
these beings.

495
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:52,760
You know, sometimes they talk
about giants.

496
00:34:52,760 --> 00:34:56,320
So they talk about, you know,
the sons of God who interbred

497
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,400
with the daughters of man, you
know, the mighty men of old.

498
00:34:59,400 --> 00:35:01,520
All of these things.
I think your rancher book

499
00:35:01,520 --> 00:35:07,120
provides the most comprehensive
and consistent narrative for

500
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:11,120
what, what likely was the case,
What makes the most sense?

501
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,760
You know, what accounts for the,
the archaeological discoveries

502
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:22,240
of ancient civilizations and,
and various sites actual, you

503
00:35:22,240 --> 00:35:27,000
know, sites where there were
ancient cities, you know, like,

504
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:32,440
you know, Gobekli Tepe and any
number of sites that are being

505
00:35:32,440 --> 00:35:34,880
unearthed.
You know, certainly throughout

506
00:35:34,880 --> 00:35:38,160
the, the middle the least and in
other parts of the world, you

507
00:35:38,160 --> 00:35:40,880
know, pyramidal structures,
things like that.

508
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:45,520
You know, the Uranus book
portrays in a most sensible way

509
00:35:45,760 --> 00:35:51,240
what was the, the more more
likely scenario there that there

510
00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:53,920
were beings who came here from
other planets.

511
00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,400
You know, they, they were
responsible for seeding life on

512
00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:00,720
this planet like they do on
other planets because that's

513
00:36:00,720 --> 00:36:04,160
part of the divine plan.
And then there are those who are

514
00:36:04,160 --> 00:36:10,200
dispatched to a planet that,
that had, you know, a prior

515
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,280
existence on other planets, like
those who, who comprised the

516
00:36:14,280 --> 00:36:18,240
Prince's staff of 100.
You know, those were beings who,

517
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,880
who, according to the Urantia
narrative, they lived actual

518
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:24,080
lives as humans on other
planets.

519
00:36:24,680 --> 00:36:28,080
And then they were given this
distinct, you know, privilege

520
00:36:28,080 --> 00:36:34,160
and duty to to be, you know,
reincorporated on this planet

521
00:36:34,800 --> 00:36:37,480
and incorporate it.
Meaning they were given new

522
00:36:37,480 --> 00:36:42,840
corporeal bodies that, you know,
were at what had such features

523
00:36:42,840 --> 00:36:46,280
that would have been looked at
as essentially like demigods

524
00:36:46,280 --> 00:36:48,680
because of the stature 8 feet
tall.

525
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,720
And, and then, you know, great
wisdom, spiritual insight, all

526
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:54,680
these things, you know, that
would accounted for a lot of the

527
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:58,560
legends and, and a lot of the
Genesis accounts themselves.

528
00:36:59,320 --> 00:37:06,360
Now, now part of that gem also,
I think it has to be taken into

529
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:13,920
account as far as the rebel
aspect that we know occurred,

530
00:37:13,960 --> 00:37:17,920
you know, with the, the Lucifer
rebellion, the the Calagasia

531
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:23,080
betrayal, all of the different
beings who went into rebellion,

532
00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,640
which you know, is a possibility
whenever you have free will.

533
00:37:29,560 --> 00:37:35,960
And so I do want to say, before
we end up here, I'm not naive in

534
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:40,960
thinking that all the
interactions that have occurred

535
00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:45,560
either in, you know, earlier,
much earlier times or in the

536
00:37:45,560 --> 00:37:49,520
more recent decades, let's say
since the Roswell incident in

537
00:37:49,520 --> 00:37:52,720
the late 1940s.
I'm not naive enough to think

538
00:37:52,720 --> 00:37:55,840
that all of these ET
interactions have been

539
00:37:55,840 --> 00:37:59,360
benevolent.
Perhaps they have been.

540
00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:05,200
But because all of these beings
have free will, they could

541
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:11,840
choose selfish motives.
They could choose to not be

542
00:38:11,840 --> 00:38:17,880
aligned with the divine plan and
therefore be exploitative of

543
00:38:17,880 --> 00:38:21,760
Earth humanity.
So that is a possibility.

544
00:38:22,600 --> 00:38:25,760
So, you know, we know that on
our own planet, you know, we

545
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:30,240
have, you know, from Mother
Teresa's to, you know, to, you

546
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,080
know, humans that are at a lot
lower character level.

547
00:38:34,200 --> 00:38:39,000
We have a wide spectrum of moral
conduct on this planet.

548
00:38:39,400 --> 00:38:43,760
So the possibility exists for
those who are visiting that

549
00:38:43,760 --> 00:38:47,400
despite their relative
advantages and technology and,

550
00:38:47,400 --> 00:38:51,720
and you know, spiritual
information and things like

551
00:38:51,720 --> 00:38:55,960
that, they still get to choose.
And so some of them may, may

552
00:38:55,960 --> 00:38:59,960
choose to, to not have the
highest interest, you know, of,

553
00:39:00,000 --> 00:39:04,760
of Earth humanity in mind.
And and so I, I kind of want to

554
00:39:04,760 --> 00:39:10,840
wrap up and say, when you see
some of these documentaries and

555
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:14,360
new film releases that are
getting a lot of publicity, such

556
00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:20,920
as the recent documentary called
The Age of Disclosure that

557
00:39:20,920 --> 00:39:25,000
rolled out dozens of
whistleblower, you know,

558
00:39:25,000 --> 00:39:31,920
witnesses and then lots of of US
governments people, even Marco

559
00:39:31,920 --> 00:39:35,600
Rubio being interviewed for the
age of disclosure documentary.

560
00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:41,400
Bear in mind that that all of
that documentary had the

561
00:39:42,240 --> 00:39:45,560
essentially the message of the
national security state.

562
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:52,240
It tends to portray the the E TS
as being a potential threat.

563
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:57,840
OK, when you look at the trailer
for Steven Spielberg's new

564
00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,400
movie, that's called Disclosure
Day, that's coming out on June

565
00:40:01,400 --> 00:40:05,040
12th.
That trailer has a very kind of

566
00:40:05,040 --> 00:40:10,360
ominous and dark feel to it,
which also likely is going to

567
00:40:10,360 --> 00:40:17,720
take a fear based approach to
how the the whole UFOET topic is

568
00:40:18,000 --> 00:40:21,360
is portrayed.
You know that well, likely

569
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,240
there's something to be afraid
of here.

570
00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:29,560
And that's unfortunate because I
think it's better that a, a more

571
00:40:29,560 --> 00:40:36,000
balanced perspective is, is what
the public starts to debate on

572
00:40:36,000 --> 00:40:39,560
this.
And, and so that would be my, my

573
00:40:39,560 --> 00:40:43,680
final word here in this, this
particular episode of your

574
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:47,440
podcast is we need to have
discernment.

575
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:50,320
We need to look at this through
a broader lens.

576
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:55,680
Be very cautious when you hear
the government officials making

577
00:40:55,680 --> 00:40:58,320
these disclosure announcements,
including the president.

578
00:40:59,880 --> 00:41:05,320
There are lots of agendas and,
and we just have to be mindful,

579
00:41:05,320 --> 00:41:08,840
have an open discussion.
You know, I, I think the rancher

580
00:41:08,840 --> 00:41:13,000
book is a great reference, a
book that everyone should take,

581
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,600
take a look at, if for no other
reason than to get a good

582
00:41:16,600 --> 00:41:21,280
grounding in this whole
disclosure narrative and, and

583
00:41:21,280 --> 00:41:23,240
then just kind of move forward
from there.

584
00:41:23,320 --> 00:41:25,560
And certainly we're going to
have a lot more to talk about,

585
00:41:25,840 --> 00:41:27,560
you know, in future episodes,
Jim.

586
00:41:27,600 --> 00:41:30,640
And no question, once the the
big disclosure is made, you and

587
00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:33,840
I can huddle again and and take
a look at it from the other

588
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:34,960
side.
So thank you, Joel.

589
00:41:34,960 --> 00:41:37,360
I appreciate you.
It is a real pleasure to have

590
00:41:37,360 --> 00:41:45,340
you back on the program.
Look, it's clear that you're

591
00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:49,460
going to want to share this with
a lot of your friends and I

592
00:41:49,460 --> 00:41:52,760
don't blame you.
So feel free to share this an

593
00:41:52,760 --> 00:41:55,880
episode with as many people you
think would be interested as

594
00:41:55,880 --> 00:41:59,640
possible and we'll make it a
date to see you back here real

595
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:02,080
soon.
Don't forget next episode, our

596
00:42:02,080 --> 00:42:06,160
personality profile, Emmanuel.
That's going to be a good one.

597
00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:09,960
Until next time, blessings and
cheers.

598
00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:18,000
You're an interesting species,
an interesting mix.

599
00:42:19,720 --> 00:42:21,800
You're capable of such beautiful
dreams.

600
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:24,880
They're such horrible
nightmares.

601
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:31,240
You feel so lost, so cut off, so
alone.

602
00:42:32,480 --> 00:42:37,160
See, in all our searching, the
only thing we've found that

603
00:42:37,160 --> 00:42:40,240
makes the emptiness bearable is
each other.

604
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:45,680
This was just the first step.
In time, you'll take another.

605
00:42:46,040 --> 00:42:48,160
This is the way it's been done
for billions of years.

606
00:42:51,320 --> 00:42:55,760
Small moves, Ali, Small moves.