Theresa Marks - A Spiritual Bill of Rights

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Welcome to another edition of
the Arrancha Radio Podcast.

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My name is Jim Watkins, your
host, where we talk about the

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5th epical revelation.
My guest this time up is Teresa

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Marks.
She lives in the Northwest

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Oregon area of the United States
and she's a prolific musician

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and an ardent student of the
Arrancha book and quite a

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prolific writer as well.
That's how I came across her

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work.
One of her writings had to do

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with a unique concept I think
you will appreciate hearing

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about.
It's called the Spiritual Bill

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of Rights.
Teresa also shares her

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experience with Seeking truth
and desires to help others on

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the same path.
So we'll get underway with the

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Conversation on the Rancho Radio
podcast.

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And by the way, there's a she
not only bring, but by the way

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she not only brings her ideas,
but her music performance as

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well.
She is a self-proclaimed

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spiritual rights activist, A
trained spiritual director which

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we'll get into.
Also the author of a spiritual

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Bill of Rights for Humanity,
which we'll also talk to her

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about.
She arrived at her calling to be

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a spiritual director with after
a long healing process from the

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hurt she experienced during her
38 years in institutional

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religion.
We're going to cover a lot of

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stuff having to do with this
now.

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She left her native religion in
2004 and she went through a 23

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year deconstruction and
reconstruction process which

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included explorations of many
diverse spiritual paths.

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And then, lo and behold, in
2013, ladies and gentlemen, she

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was introduced to the Urantia
book by her late husband, Bruce

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Porter, who was, by the way,
former president of the Urantia

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Association, US.
I'm sorry I didn't get a chance

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to meet him.
And there's so much more about

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this woman.
I'm telling you, she has got I I

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am shameful.
I am humbled by her coming on

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this program and she's a
wonderful musician and I'm so

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envious because I love music and
I have no talent.

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So I've tried, let me tell you.
And so it's a good thing.

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My parents told me that I might
have convinced myself I was

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really good and tried to get on
a talent show.

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So, but anyway, Teresa, it's
good to have you here, and I

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want to talk about a lot of
things.

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First of all, how did you find
out?

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And what was your original
thought about the ranch book

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when you first read it, when you
first were introduced to it?

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Oh my gosh.
Well, of course I met.

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When I met Bruce, he told me
about it.

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That was the first I ever heard
of it.

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And he he he always told me well
it's not it's not a big issue

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for me if you never feel drawn
to read it and so but but we

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were around a lot of Urantia
book readers and so I was you

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know just exposed to all the
Urantia book jargon you know

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like thought adjuster and
planetary prints and all that

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stuff.
And and finally three years down

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the road in 2013 I finally
picked up the book and I started

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reading.
I think it was like the the

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paper on, you know, ad the
default of Adam and Eve and some

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of those things.
And and I was just kind of like,

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I'm not sure about this, you
know, it don't sounds like a

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strange version of a fairy tale
or something like that.

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But then I got to the thotted
gesture papers and the

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beautiful, you know, writing
about how we all have this, this

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indwelling spirit, you know,
this, this fragment of the true

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God in US and then and that we
at someday we will fuse with

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that spirit.
And that just touched me to the

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core and and after that point I
just kind of like, I just

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thought, you know, this, this is
true.

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This this book is true.
There's something.

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It has that quality right?
I had a friend once I I

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introduced the book to and there
aren't that many people that are

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receptive to it.
At least that's been my

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experience.
But like you they read the

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thought adjuster part and bam,
they they were sold it just it

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touched them in a certain way,
you know.

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So for me it was paper 155 in
the second Discourse on

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Religion.
But I want to get into your so

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so you found the book you're
with your husband are you were

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you living in in Oregon at that
time or were you living in

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Chicago?
Where were you in your life when

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you when?
You I was in Oregon and we

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actually Co helped to run the
Kindred Spirits Retreat center

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in Eugene OR area for several
years together and and that was

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a wonderful adventure and of
course it started as a new

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Rancho new Rancho LED retreat.
But then we we branched out into

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other other retreats as well.
So we Bruce and I just basically

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provided the space to host
spiritual retreats of different

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kinds.
Yeah.

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So it was, you know?
Well, I think learning and

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talking to other people.
Did you find anything that was

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common about some of the folks
that you found were reading the

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arranged book?
Any commonalities of experience?

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I mean, yeah, definitely.
Because those are the, those are

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the folks that are on real
journey.

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I mean a lot of them like me, I
think they were were hurt by

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religion.
Either that or they were just

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questioning the religion they
grew up with and they started on

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the search and and they were you
know blessed enough to find

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this, this revelation.
So it's definitely we're all

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truth seekers, I think.
Yeah, no, I know.

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I I actually asked for it.
I said I I I'm, I was 19 and I

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said I'm ready.
I I I was tired of looking.

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I got and I was talking like
you.

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You know I I talked to somebody
and they were into Eckankar or

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somebody who was a Buddhist and
I dated a woman who was a

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Baptist and and I went to church
and there there was just

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something that wasn't a complete
picture for me.

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And I'm saying this because I
think we all have that sort of

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common we're looking for the
truth.

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Where is it?
And I just, I put it before God

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and I said whatever it is, let
me know.

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And then two years later, I
literally stepped into it and it

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was an amazing thing.
But this isn't about me.

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This is about you.
So you're do you consider

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yourself still a what you would
call a Christian?

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I I like to call myself a
follower of Jesus, OK?

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Because there's there's so much,
unfortunately, there's so much

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negative baggage around the term
Christian and some of that still

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kind of touches me and the the,
you know, bad experience I had

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with my and it was a Christian
religion, you know, that I grew

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up in.
And so I'd like to.

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I'd like to avoid that,
especially in talking to other

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folks who are healing from their
own bad experience with

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religion.
So, but, but I like to say I'm a

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follower of Jesus.
Yeah, I say that too.

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A Jesus, Sony and and people
look at me and go, well isn't

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that the same thing?
And I say, Oh no, if you only

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knew.
So let's talk about that,

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because that is something in in
in not only this discussion, but

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how are people damaged by
religion?

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Wow.
Well, you know, a lot of

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different ways, but I I thought
maybe I'd just kind of share

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sort of my personal story with
it because so I I grew up in a

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strict religion that I would, I
would call kind of a high

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control religion with lots of
lots of rules lots of

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obligations.
And my my family was very

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loving, but they were varied
about.

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I was well indoctrinated into
this.

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I didn't have any, you know,
thoughts or you know, problems

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with that until I hit like age
20 and I had my very first

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relationship with, you know,
with the boyfriend and he

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happened to be not religious as
well.

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And so when when we became
intimately involved, he had no

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problems with that.
But I was like, you know,

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extremely guilt ridden and my
religion basically told me that

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I was going to hell for that.
And so finally it was ended up

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being a long term relationship.
We we finally married after five

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years.
And then after we got married,

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my religion told me that I was
going to hell for using birth

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control.
So, so basically for about 12

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years of my life I was
absolutely convinced that if I

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accidentally died I would suffer
eternal punishment.

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That is what I believed and I
had that.

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There were a lot of negative
effects in my life with that I

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had.
I did have nightmares sometimes.

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I would have panic attacks and
the stress of that definitely.

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I know it definitely contributed
to an eating disorder that I

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developed during my 20s and 30s
that it was kind of a process to

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climb out of that.
But I finally did.

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So there, there.
There's a lot of different

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things that you know can can
develop with this kind of trauma

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really.
Because the these days there is

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a word for it.
Therapists are now calling this

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Religious trauma and.
I don't think I like that word.

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I don't like that phrase.
It makes it sound like religion

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as a whole is a bad thing.
But yet I understand what you're

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saying.
Was there any point where you

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felt like, OK, well, I'll just
walk away from my religion.

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Well, not for many years,
because So what happened was

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finally our marriage hit a
crisis point and I knew that I

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needed God back in my life to to
able to heal the mess of my

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life, right?
And so I I I reconciled with my

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church and then I became like
really obsessively devout.

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I mean, I was spending two or
three hours a day sometimes in

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church.
And the reason for that was

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mostly because I was still
afraid to death of of messing

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up, accidentally messing up and
going to hell.

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And but but through that time
you know that I that I was doing

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all that in intensive prayer.
I actually did develop a real

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relationship with with the real
God, right.

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Not the judgmental God that my
religion told me about.

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And and through that, I realized
that God was was kind of telling

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me, hey, you actually don't need
your religion to have a real

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relationship with me.
You can do this without religion

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and so, so that's the way that
that began the my 20 year

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deconstruction and
reconstruction process where I I

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explored a lot of different
things and and eventually thank

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God was led to the Urantia Book.
So yeah.

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You know, there's there's that
that feeling.

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I know I I don't.
I've always been a rebel anyway,

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so it didn't matter, you know.
To me it was God.

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You made me this way, so you
know it's just as much as your

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fault as it is mine.
I mean that was always my

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attitude, right?
But I always had AI don't even

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know where it came from, but I
always had the most love and

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admiration for Jesus.
To me he was the guard.

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He was the smart guy and and
without knowing much about the

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Bible I I just it was always a a
very fine idea in my mind and I

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had no idea where it came from
until I came across paper 155 in

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the Arancha book where Jesus is
talking about the discourse on

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religion and his My most
favorite quote is that to a man

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who has God in his heart all
things are spiritual and I'd

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never heard it put that way
before and he was it was just

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and I know that you mentioned in
in in some of our communications

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about the importance of that
area.

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So.
So what was it like?

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Was there a feeling of spiritual
liberation when you discover the

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Erantia book?
Like, oh, I'm home.

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This is where you can explain
that process to me.

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We're going to skip by the
deconstruction and we'll talk

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about the reconstruction.
And so yeah.

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Yeah.
And and I was already kind of on

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a on a reconstruction process,
you know, a few years before I

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saw found the Erantia book.
But once I read that part in the

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gesture papers that you get to
fuse with this fragment of God,

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it was just mind blowing for me.
It was I just felt like, wow,

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this is more incredibly
wonderful than I could ever

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imagined because I had, you
know, I I did start growing a

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real relationship with God in
while I was in, you know the old

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fashioned religion I was in and
I had a a very strong desire for

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worship.
Right.

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And that was just like it It
blew that whole idea of worship

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out of the water.
It was like you get to actually

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fuse with it and the and after
that I was just like this

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thing's got to be real because
this is just strikes such an

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amazing deep chord of me and I,
you know just kind of reading

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00:14:25,520 --> 00:14:28,440
through other parts of the book,
it's like nobody could make this

227
00:14:28,560 --> 00:14:31,160
up.
I mean it's like 2000 pages.

228
00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:35,400
How could anybody, with the
consistent messages it has and

229
00:14:36,000 --> 00:14:39,240
everything, how could anybody
just sit here and make this up

230
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:46,120
so that it became really clear
to me that that was it was the

231
00:14:46,120 --> 00:14:49,480
truth, so.
Can I can we go in the direction

232
00:14:49,480 --> 00:14:51,560
of what happened to your
husband, your late husband,

233
00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:53,880
Bruce?
Sure.

234
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:58,440
Because I'm sure that might must
have been a devastating blow.

235
00:14:58,440 --> 00:15:01,080
Here you are.
You're in a new relationship,

236
00:15:01,080 --> 00:15:04,800
You've you've rediscovered,
rekindled your you got The

237
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:07,760
Urantia Book and with your life
experience, and then this

238
00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:09,840
happens.
What happened?

239
00:15:12,880 --> 00:15:17,000
Gosh, he he had a chronic
illness that really wore him

240
00:15:17,000 --> 00:15:21,440
down for about three or four
years and was going downhill.

241
00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,200
And finally what, What?
In October 2020, he died of a

242
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,200
brain aneurysm.
And yeah.

243
00:15:31,680 --> 00:15:35,720
It was.
Yeah, it was sad but but but at

244
00:15:35,720 --> 00:15:40,040
the same time, I knew he wasn't
Over those three years he just

245
00:15:40,040 --> 00:15:43,000
went downhill so much that he
wasn't the same person and I

246
00:15:43,000 --> 00:15:45,080
was.
I was already grappling with it

247
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:47,480
and in in a grieving process
with that.

248
00:15:47,960 --> 00:15:53,320
So, and then and I I miss him,
you know, of course, especially

249
00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,960
that he was a Rancho book reader
and we would have had so much to

250
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:05,280
to share now.
But I miraculously found a

251
00:16:05,640 --> 00:16:09,280
wonderful man just two months
after Bruce died.

252
00:16:10,080 --> 00:16:13,520
And his name's Gary and we've
been married for three years

253
00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:18,120
now.
And he lost his wife of 37 years

254
00:16:18,200 --> 00:16:22,680
from colon cancer just within
one month of when I lost Bruce.

255
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:24,840
Oh my and.
Yeah.

256
00:16:24,840 --> 00:16:29,840
And we, we found each other
online on on Christian Mingle

257
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,000
actually.
And I knew that, you know, I

258
00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:35,360
needed another, you know, Jesus
believer.

259
00:16:35,520 --> 00:16:41,520
And he's a a beautiful man, a a
beautiful man of God, a a

260
00:16:42,760 --> 00:16:46,640
committed Christian.
This is kind of a first for me

261
00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,160
because I haven't been exposed
to that sort of the evangelical

262
00:16:50,160 --> 00:16:53,920
path and that's where he's from.
But he's he's very open minded

263
00:16:53,920 --> 00:17:00,760
though because he's supportive
of my, you know my search with

264
00:17:00,760 --> 00:17:04,200
the Urantia book and my being a
reader and he's been very

265
00:17:04,200 --> 00:17:08,960
supportive of my writing of the
spiritual Bill of Rights.

266
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:15,440
And so he's not your typical
he's angelical Christian and and

267
00:17:15,440 --> 00:17:19,880
we have you know it was just a
real miracle the two of us

268
00:17:19,880 --> 00:17:25,319
meeting and he's also an artist.
So an artist to my musician is a

269
00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:26,079
real.
Combination.

270
00:17:26,400 --> 00:17:28,280
That's wonderful.
Yeah.

271
00:17:28,319 --> 00:17:31,840
You know, I I there's a
gentleman who runs an

272
00:17:31,840 --> 00:17:36,880
organization called Genesis 123
and he's he's a he's born

273
00:17:36,880 --> 00:17:40,520
Jewish, lives in Israel, but
he's a Christian and he has made

274
00:17:40,520 --> 00:17:43,760
it his purpose to bridge
Christians and Jews.

275
00:17:44,960 --> 00:17:50,200
I'd like to form an organization
and bridge Christians with the

276
00:17:50,200 --> 00:17:53,560
Urantia Book because I think one
thing that I see over and over

277
00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:58,880
and all of my talks is that that
people it's it's either all or

278
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:01,000
nothing.
If they throw out the baby with

279
00:18:01,000 --> 00:18:04,920
the bathwater, if they they
outgrow Christianity because

280
00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,040
they think that it's or it's the
other extreme, it's only

281
00:18:09,040 --> 00:18:12,760
Christianity the way that the
Christians define it and nothing

282
00:18:12,760 --> 00:18:15,240
else.
And if anything, you know, like

283
00:18:15,240 --> 00:18:18,760
Revelations is quoted a lot, you
know, beware of the false

284
00:18:18,760 --> 00:18:20,600
prophets.
And so there's a lot of

285
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:25,840
antagonism from Christians about
this revelation, just as there

286
00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:30,360
were a lot of antagonism against
Jesus from the Jewish rulers of

287
00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,920
the day.
And it's remarkable the

288
00:18:32,920 --> 00:18:34,800
similarities.
And I say to my Christian

289
00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:37,840
friends here and elsewhere, you
don't know what you're missing,

290
00:18:38,280 --> 00:18:39,720
and there's nothing to worry
about here.

291
00:18:39,720 --> 00:18:42,040
This is the revelation you've
been waiting for, right?

292
00:18:43,600 --> 00:18:47,240
And so now you're going to
discard it because the Bible

293
00:18:47,240 --> 00:18:50,280
says beware of false prophets.
OK, that's good advice.

294
00:18:51,040 --> 00:18:54,720
But you you can't just discount
something just because someone

295
00:18:54,720 --> 00:18:56,880
else told you so.
And that's what they do over and

296
00:18:56,880 --> 00:18:58,040
over.
It's very tragic.

297
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,800
And we need their help.
Actually, we need their help and

298
00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:05,760
we can actually save
Christianity, I think because

299
00:19:05,920 --> 00:19:09,040
Christianity is not going in a
good direction, right?

300
00:19:09,040 --> 00:19:13,720
I mean, it's still popular, but
but our institutions are like

301
00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,080
you say, it's like, I didn't
realize that they they're

302
00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:20,040
talking about religious trauma
that makes it sound like it's a

303
00:19:20,040 --> 00:19:22,480
bad thing.
Yeah.

304
00:19:22,480 --> 00:19:26,960
And I don't mean that because,
you know, obviously religion has

305
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:31,280
a wonderful place and there's so
many gifts about each particular

306
00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,440
religion.
And and I still, I still have

307
00:19:33,440 --> 00:19:36,960
good feelings about a lot of,
you know, some of my religious

308
00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:40,400
upbringing.
They taught me how to pray.

309
00:19:40,400 --> 00:19:43,840
They they gave me, you know, in
my first connection to God.

310
00:19:45,080 --> 00:19:50,000
But but it's it's the
authoritarian versions that the

311
00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:54,680
ones that tell you that you have
to do this or else, you know God

312
00:19:54,680 --> 00:19:58,520
will punish you.
You know, those those are the

313
00:19:58,520 --> 00:20:03,040
ones that that really can hurt
people.

314
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:07,960
I I sat in on a religious
deconstruction support group

315
00:20:07,960 --> 00:20:13,000
online this summer, that there
was a gal, I think she grew up

316
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:17,000
actually Jehovah's Witness and
she decided at age 15 that she

317
00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,680
was just not going to do any
church related stuff anymore.

318
00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:23,400
And her parents?
They threw her out of the house

319
00:20:23,520 --> 00:20:28,440
at age 15.
So that's the kind of when you

320
00:20:28,440 --> 00:20:33,760
when people are convinced that
their spiritual path is the

321
00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:40,040
truth, they can end up doing a
lot of not good things because

322
00:20:40,040 --> 00:20:43,760
of that.
And a lot of guilt seems to be a

323
00:20:43,760 --> 00:20:46,040
lot of guilt.
Is that what a lot of the

324
00:20:46,040 --> 00:20:50,280
so-called trauma comes from?
Let's go down, because I do want

325
00:20:50,280 --> 00:20:53,800
to get to your freedom of your
spiritual Bill of Rights and

326
00:20:53,800 --> 00:20:57,320
what you want to do with that.
But what is what causes?

327
00:20:57,320 --> 00:21:00,560
What are the common traits of
people who have been traumatized

328
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:03,720
by bad religious experiences?
What are some of the less

329
00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:06,280
obvious ones?
Not the obvious ones, but what

330
00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:08,520
do we well?
Yeah.

331
00:21:08,560 --> 00:21:11,920
Well, there's obviously the, the
trauma of, you know, of the

332
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:15,120
belief and how that causes a
lot.

333
00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:22,440
And then and and also another
teaching that's been really

334
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:25,720
injurious has been the one that
that we all have the sinful

335
00:21:25,720 --> 00:21:29,400
nature that we're by, by nature
we're sinful.

336
00:21:29,400 --> 00:21:33,880
You know, the this idea of some
religions called original sin.

337
00:21:34,920 --> 00:21:39,720
But then the other part of it
too is that and something that I

338
00:21:39,720 --> 00:21:44,680
actually didn't experience is
that religious representatives,

339
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,440
ministers, priests can actually
abuse people.

340
00:21:47,440 --> 00:21:51,160
And we've heard tons about that,
you know, and thank God that

341
00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:57,520
never happened to me.
My, my trauma around it was only

342
00:21:57,800 --> 00:22:00,520
through the indoctrination and
through the beliefs.

343
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:03,920
It wasn't actually nobody to
uphold.

344
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:08,000
My my whole history with that
was actually mean to me.

345
00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:15,160
But but when you put that in
there too, it becomes terribly,

346
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:18,400
you know, injurious to people.
Let.

347
00:22:18,680 --> 00:22:22,320
Me ask you this, there's another
kind of trauma that is the exact

348
00:22:22,320 --> 00:22:24,560
opposite.
And these are people who are

349
00:22:24,560 --> 00:22:28,120
raised in atheist families, and
they're taught to avoid

350
00:22:28,120 --> 00:22:29,960
religion, to hate it, to despise
it.

351
00:22:30,280 --> 00:22:33,080
To me, that's a form of
religious abuse because what

352
00:22:33,080 --> 00:22:36,600
you're doing as a parent or as a
role model is you're basically

353
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:40,880
indoctrinating your children to
not have any recognition of the

354
00:22:40,880 --> 00:22:44,680
spiritual value of life or that
that anything that that his

355
00:22:44,680 --> 00:22:47,720
smells or reeks of religion must
be avoided at all costs.

356
00:22:48,080 --> 00:22:51,560
I think that's equally traumatic
because people then have all

357
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:54,840
kinds of problems in their life
growing up and they can't

358
00:22:54,840 --> 00:22:58,040
reconcile because they don't
have that perspective.

359
00:22:58,480 --> 00:22:59,720
Do you have any thoughts on
that?

360
00:23:00,720 --> 00:23:06,560
Oh yeah, I absolutely, 100%
agree with you because that's

361
00:23:06,560 --> 00:23:11,600
where atheism can get to be one
of these authoritarian belief

362
00:23:11,600 --> 00:23:14,400
systems.
And it's a belief system that

363
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:20,240
they're, you know, when they,
well, then they go to that point

364
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:25,240
where they're trying to, you
know, plummet you with their

365
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,560
beliefs.
It's it's just about as bad and

366
00:23:29,560 --> 00:23:35,760
and and I would say probably
worse because I have another

367
00:23:35,760 --> 00:23:40,320
word for atheism and I I like to
call it meaninglessness because

368
00:23:42,120 --> 00:23:46,840
this whole world is meaningless
without any, without God,

369
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:52,080
without the spiritual, you know.
So I'm totally in agreement with

370
00:23:52,080 --> 00:23:54,160
that.
Yeah, I would say that.

371
00:23:54,560 --> 00:23:58,400
It's like telling a child that
they were an accident.

372
00:24:01,160 --> 00:24:03,280
There's no reason.
There's no special reason you're

373
00:24:03,280 --> 00:24:06,800
here, so don't go down that trap
because that's just religious

374
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,400
BS.
You know, this is just a cosmic

375
00:24:10,400 --> 00:24:15,040
accident that to me is damaging
to a human's complete world

376
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,760
view.
If they grow up thinking that

377
00:24:16,760 --> 00:24:20,280
nothing really matters and that
we only live on in our.

378
00:24:20,280 --> 00:24:22,640
I mean it's like Oh yeah, well
you live on in your children.

379
00:24:22,640 --> 00:24:24,800
Well no you don't.
I mean that.

380
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,880
I mean eternal non existence is
just as frightening to me as

381
00:24:28,880 --> 00:24:32,160
hell.
In fact, I think it's worse, but

382
00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:34,840
because I want to participate.
So you know, without getting off

383
00:24:34,840 --> 00:24:39,640
track toxic spiritual concepts,
what are some toxic spiritual

384
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:45,320
concepts?
Well, the three main ones that I

385
00:24:45,440 --> 00:24:49,920
really mentioned in my document
are the concept of eternal

386
00:24:50,120 --> 00:24:55,320
punishment and the concept of a
vengeful, wrathful God.

387
00:24:56,640 --> 00:25:03,440
And and actually the Atonement
concept, the and the arrangement

388
00:25:03,440 --> 00:25:07,360
is very clear on in telling
people that that is absolutely

389
00:25:07,360 --> 00:25:12,760
false that that God would would
send an innocent person, you

390
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:18,280
know his son Jesus to to die
because he somehow needed to pay

391
00:25:18,280 --> 00:25:22,000
a ransom.
Rectify through, Yeah, it's a

392
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:29,040
ransom blood sacrifice, you
know, and that and also this

393
00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:33,960
idea of that we are innately
sinful that we're innately bad.

394
00:25:35,440 --> 00:25:40,480
Original sin is what some
religions call it, I believe.

395
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:46,280
And so those are three ones that
that have unfortunately become

396
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:54,080
like the cornerstones of a lot
of Christian theology and that

397
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:59,800
that is really tragic.
Yeah, let's talk about your

398
00:25:59,800 --> 00:26:02,200
spiritual Bill of Rights,
because it's sort of what I've

399
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:06,160
been alluding to.
So you you've come up with the

400
00:26:06,160 --> 00:26:08,240
seven spiritual rights of
humanity.

401
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:11,520
What are they?
OK, well.

402
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:13,280
I'm gonna put you on the spot
there.

403
00:26:14,360 --> 00:26:17,880
Yeah, why don't I just, I'll
just, I'll just read these for

404
00:26:17,880 --> 00:26:20,640
you and as as I state them in my
document.

405
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:24,800
OK, excuse me.
So #1 is the right of

406
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:29,160
individuals to connect directly
with the Creator in their own

407
00:26:29,160 --> 00:26:34,000
unique way, is fundamental to
human spirituality and should be

408
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,560
forever protected, honored, and
cherished.

409
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:45,720
And #2 is individual persons
have a right to affirm their

410
00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:50,320
inherent goodness as beloved
children of the Creator.

411
00:26:51,400 --> 00:26:53,360
I like that one.
That's a good one.

412
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:59,200
Yeah, and #3.
Individual persons have the

413
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:04,840
right to freedom from fear,
especially fear of false divine

414
00:27:04,840 --> 00:27:07,920
punishments.
That's one of the most original

415
00:27:07,920 --> 00:27:10,920
statements I've ever heard.
On my 60 years of living on this

416
00:27:10,920 --> 00:27:13,040
planet, I've never thought about
that.

417
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:16,960
You should have a right to not
fear the angels or not fear

418
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:19,880
divine punishment.
I never gave that a thought

419
00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:22,160
until I read what you just what
you just.

420
00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:27,200
Said yeah, fear is just fear.
Is like is like the opposite of

421
00:27:27,200 --> 00:27:33,000
love as far as what I have
determined, you know, in my

422
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:38,520
search.
So yeah, so #4 is individual

423
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:42,640
persons have the right to embark
on their own search for truth,

424
00:27:44,040 --> 00:27:50,040
#5 individual persons have the
right to freedom from religious

425
00:27:50,120 --> 00:27:53,000
obligations.
Now what does that mean?

426
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,160
What is the?
Are we shirking our cosmic duty

427
00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:58,040
here or how would you explain
that?

428
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:05,280
Well, what it is, is that any
spiritual or religious practice

429
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:11,600
that you take up should be
voluntary and it should grow out

430
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:16,880
of your natural relation,
primary relationship with the

431
00:28:16,880 --> 00:28:21,080
Creator.
And so if you feel led to, you

432
00:28:21,080 --> 00:28:25,920
know, do 11 practice or another,
that's a beautiful thing.

433
00:28:25,920 --> 00:28:28,200
And if it has meaning for you,
that's a beautiful thing.

434
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:32,160
But in my tradition that I grew
up in, there were so many

435
00:28:32,160 --> 00:28:36,520
obligations and so many things
that they said, you have to do

436
00:28:36,520 --> 00:28:42,080
this or you're going to hell.
I mean, it got ridiculous.

437
00:28:43,080 --> 00:28:45,360
I know what you mean.
So yeah, to my Muslim friends

438
00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:48,720
they say, you know, we pay, we
we we have to pray three times a

439
00:28:48,720 --> 00:28:50,360
day and say, well why stop at
three?

440
00:28:51,240 --> 00:28:52,840
Why not 20?
How about 23?

441
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,360
I I pray every 5 minutes, you
know.

442
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,760
Right, right, right.
Yeah, exactly.

443
00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:04,280
So, OK, so two more of them. 6.
Individual persons have the

444
00:29:04,280 --> 00:29:09,600
right to access all spiritual
leadership goals, regardless of

445
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:13,400
identity.
I like that.

446
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:15,160
I like that.
You know why?

447
00:29:15,160 --> 00:29:18,880
Because it it it gives dignity
to the person.

448
00:29:18,880 --> 00:29:21,840
It restores that dignity that we
have a right to question.

449
00:29:22,280 --> 00:29:24,840
We have a right to answers.
We have a right to find the

450
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:27,280
answers we have.
I like these.

451
00:29:27,280 --> 00:29:30,160
These are good.
Yeah, yeah.

452
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:35,720
I think, I think that just about
any, you know, sincere your

453
00:29:35,720 --> 00:29:38,320
ranch book reader is going to
like, really love these.

454
00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:42,000
Yeah, because they they are.
Now this last one you have here

455
00:29:42,000 --> 00:29:45,720
is a little bit controversial,
but I want to hear.

456
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:47,600
Yeah, but go ahead and tell
everybody.

457
00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,160
Yeah, and I want to.
I want to address that as well.

458
00:29:51,160 --> 00:29:57,160
But #7 individual persons have
the right to determine their own

459
00:29:57,160 --> 00:29:59,800
loving and committed human
partnerships.

460
00:30:00,640 --> 00:30:08,120
And what I want to stress about
this is that relationships, as

461
00:30:08,120 --> 00:30:12,760
the Urantia Book tells us, are
the the lasting things in our

462
00:30:12,760 --> 00:30:14,400
lives.
They are the things that have

463
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:18,160
spiritual value.
And we will know, you know,

464
00:30:18,160 --> 00:30:21,120
people in the mansion worlds
that that we've had real

465
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:26,480
relationships with.
And if if you just tell a whole

466
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:32,360
huge group of people that they
cannot have, you know, a a a

467
00:30:33,280 --> 00:30:36,800
human partnership, a marriage,
basically I'm what I'm talking

468
00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:44,240
about, that cuts them off from a
whole huge bunch of spiritual

469
00:30:44,240 --> 00:30:47,640
growth that they could have in
their life if they had that kind

470
00:30:47,640 --> 00:30:51,120
of relationship.
And So what it is is protecting

471
00:30:51,560 --> 00:30:57,720
the spiritual growth that you
can have in these relationships

472
00:30:57,720 --> 00:31:03,800
which is really important.
And and I, I know that that, you

473
00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:08,440
know the LGBT issues are
controversial for some people.

474
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:12,800
They they aren't for me
personally because I I, you

475
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:19,920
know, I feel that that those
folks have always everybody I've

476
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:25,080
met who is that way has told me
that they're they knew they were

477
00:31:25,080 --> 00:31:30,560
that way from an early age.
And I can't imagine that that

478
00:31:33,320 --> 00:31:37,880
that God would prevent them from
living their lives and and that

479
00:31:37,880 --> 00:31:41,880
God would prevent them from
having you know, a loving

480
00:31:42,960 --> 00:31:45,200
committed relationship.
I'm not talking about

481
00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,480
promiscuity.
I'm not talking about any of

482
00:31:47,720 --> 00:31:49,960
that stuff.
I'm talking about monogamous,

483
00:31:50,440 --> 00:31:56,760
lifelong, you know, in in the
spiritual growth that comes from

484
00:31:56,760 --> 00:32:01,200
that, whoever you are, whether
you know, whether it's two men,

485
00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:05,400
two women, a man and a woman.
There's a lot of spiritual

486
00:32:05,400 --> 00:32:07,880
growth that comes from that.
And if you don't have that

487
00:32:07,880 --> 00:32:13,560
opportunity, then you're missing
out on a huge, huge bunch of

488
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:15,240
spiritual growth that you could
be doing.

489
00:32:15,240 --> 00:32:16,920
No, it's true.
And there are, there are

490
00:32:16,920 --> 00:32:20,360
statements, frank statements
made in the Urancha book that

491
00:32:20,560 --> 00:32:24,440
very especially in the in the
marriage and family life and it

492
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,040
talks about the fact that not
everybody is going to fit into

493
00:32:27,040 --> 00:32:30,320
these well defined roles.
There are going to be exceptions

494
00:32:30,320 --> 00:32:34,040
to the rule and there are.
And you also have to give

495
00:32:34,120 --> 00:32:37,880
cordial acceptance to people for
being.

496
00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:40,720
They may not necessarily have a
relationship with a a man

497
00:32:40,720 --> 00:32:43,440
because of trust issues, or
could be a whole host of

498
00:32:43,440 --> 00:32:47,520
emotional reasons why people
seek out certain partnerships.

499
00:32:47,520 --> 00:32:51,160
But all partnerships that are
fundamentally rooted in

500
00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:54,640
spiritual growth are are good
things, and I think that's what

501
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:56,880
you're trying to say.
So it it should exactly.

502
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,240
That's.
Exactly.

503
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,760
Do we have time?
I think we could go there was

504
00:33:01,760 --> 00:33:04,240
another element to your
spiritual rights.

505
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,880
Bill of Rights.
Can we talk a little bit about

506
00:33:07,320 --> 00:33:11,360
just I think you know maybe
close this off with some ideas

507
00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:14,240
on what what would be the
message to our Christian

508
00:33:14,720 --> 00:33:19,320
brothers and sisters about
getting them to see that they're

509
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:22,960
going to have to make some
adjustments or they're going to

510
00:33:22,960 --> 00:33:28,760
continue to lose their impact in
society, which is dangerously

511
00:33:28,760 --> 00:33:33,200
low at this point.
How do we, how do we get them to

512
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:35,560
come back in and and take a a
renewed.

513
00:33:35,560 --> 00:33:40,320
I don't know how would you say
it a renewed examination of what

514
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:44,520
the the for example I get into
conversations about people who

515
00:33:44,520 --> 00:33:48,200
are just so devout and and they
to them it's important that

516
00:33:48,200 --> 00:33:53,240
Jesus walked on water OK but to
a person who isn't a Christian

517
00:33:54,080 --> 00:33:57,600
you know to to go and say you
know mother Mary had a baby

518
00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:00,920
without without Joseph it was
Immaculate Conception.

519
00:34:01,600 --> 00:34:03,400
These are a lot of people that
that's why they leave

520
00:34:03,880 --> 00:34:07,200
Catholicism, because they want
to believe in something.

521
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:09,639
But it can't sound like science
fiction.

522
00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:11,400
It can't sound like
superstition.

523
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:14,840
It can't sound like myth.
So we have to separate the myth

524
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,520
from from Christianity and focus
on the gospel, which is that

525
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:22,159
we're all children of a loving
father, and thereby we're all

526
00:34:22,159 --> 00:34:24,560
brothers and sisters.
How do we get, how do we break

527
00:34:24,560 --> 00:34:27,800
down those barriers between
Christians and people who want

528
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:29,199
to introduce them to the Urantia
Book?

529
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:34,400
Wow.
It's hard, but it's a hard

530
00:34:34,400 --> 00:34:35,800
question.
But I do.

531
00:34:36,880 --> 00:34:41,639
I have a suggestion though.
There is this wonderful It's

532
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:46,880
your rancher based learning
course materials.

533
00:34:47,360 --> 00:34:51,000
It's called the Christ
Experiment School of Ambassadors

534
00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,840
and what it was is to.
I think it's to Urania book

535
00:34:55,840 --> 00:34:59,280
readers who were former
Jehovah's Witnesses and they

536
00:34:59,280 --> 00:35:05,640
know their scripture big time
developed a course that can help

537
00:35:06,320 --> 00:35:10,320
Urania book readers basically
kind of like Witness to

538
00:35:10,320 --> 00:35:16,960
Christians and bring in these
actual spiritual truths from the

539
00:35:16,960 --> 00:35:23,240
Urania book but only using
traditional scripture.

540
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,760
So they've gone through the
scripture with a fine tooth comb

541
00:35:27,040 --> 00:35:30,680
and said hey, this is a Urantia
book concept that we can use

542
00:35:30,880 --> 00:35:34,720
that we can point out to
Christians and only have to use

543
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:38,520
the scripture because they
aren't open to the Urantia book

544
00:35:38,520 --> 00:35:41,400
yet.
But so I actually took their

545
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:46,320
course and it was just amazing
and I actually at the end of the

546
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:52,000
course I that's when I actually
discerned my calling to be a

547
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:58,000
spiritual director.
And but I would just recommend

548
00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:02,720
any uranium book reader to go
through this course because it

549
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:08,040
just give you such an
appreciation for the Jesus

550
00:36:08,040 --> 00:36:13,920
papers for one.
And also looking at biblical

551
00:36:13,920 --> 00:36:17,240
scripture with new eyes and
seeing, oh, there is some real

552
00:36:17,280 --> 00:36:22,960
good stuff in there, you know,
And and I think that kind of

553
00:36:22,960 --> 00:36:26,840
approach is that the approach
that we need to our Christian

554
00:36:26,840 --> 00:36:30,440
brothers and sisters because by
and large, they aren't going to

555
00:36:31,280 --> 00:36:36,000
accept the arranger book.
But if we start talking to them

556
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,840
in this way, then there there
definitely can be openings.

557
00:36:39,840 --> 00:36:44,360
And and there are instances when
you can go in and say, hey, you

558
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:46,280
know, the stuff I've been
talking to you about.

559
00:36:46,440 --> 00:36:48,920
Well, there's a whole book of
that right here, you know.

560
00:36:49,080 --> 00:36:50,400
Right.
So.

561
00:36:51,200 --> 00:36:54,840
Well, Teresa, so you're you're,
is it?

562
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,440
I don't want to call you a
spiritual advisor, but what is

563
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,160
the term you use?
Spiritual.

564
00:37:00,960 --> 00:37:03,320
Spiritual.
Director and that's a sort of a

565
00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,360
traditional term that I think it
actually grew out of Catholicism

566
00:37:06,360 --> 00:37:09,600
actually.
But basically it's it's

567
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:15,400
providing a like a safe and
sacred place for people to talk

568
00:37:15,400 --> 00:37:19,680
about their spiritual journeys
and what is, you know, what

569
00:37:19,680 --> 00:37:22,560
their relationship with God is
doing.

570
00:37:22,560 --> 00:37:27,760
And and so I just sit there and
listen.

571
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:35,680
But but listen attentively and
with my connection to my

572
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:40,320
indwelling spirit, to be
constantly there asking, OK,

573
00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:45,120
what is it that this person
might need to hear from me to

574
00:37:45,120 --> 00:37:48,440
help them on their journey?
And so it's like a spiritual

575
00:37:48,440 --> 00:37:53,600
counselor using yeah I I can see
that and we need a lot we need

576
00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:57,080
an army of the and that I think
is in line with more of the

577
00:37:57,080 --> 00:38:00,880
fellowships idea of the growth
of the Urantia book is that they

578
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:04,680
had the brotherhood that became
the fellowship was for that very

579
00:38:04,680 --> 00:38:09,440
purpose to bring about and train
people in this generation for

580
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:13,520
the 4th you know the the years
to come when people will be

581
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:15,920
looking for something like the
Urantia Book and we'll have the

582
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,400
answers that they need.
So Well, Teresa, it sure has

583
00:38:19,400 --> 00:38:22,800
been great to talk with you
again.

584
00:38:23,000 --> 00:38:26,160
If if people want to find out
more about you and what you do,

585
00:38:26,440 --> 00:38:28,160
what would be a good way for
them to do that?

586
00:38:29,560 --> 00:38:34,080
Oh gosh, I have a website that's
in the works right now.

587
00:38:34,080 --> 00:38:36,520
It's not going to be up probably
until next week.

588
00:38:38,440 --> 00:38:40,400
Should I give you that?
For sure.

589
00:38:40,440 --> 00:38:41,680
Why not?
Yeah, give it.

590
00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:44,560
Well, I'll tell you what.
Let's do this when it's up, send

591
00:38:44,560 --> 00:38:47,280
me a note and I'll mention it
and I'll make sure that people

592
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:48,840
are aware of it.
And then we'll have you back on

593
00:38:48,840 --> 00:38:51,280
again too, to talk about it too.
So that would be.

594
00:38:51,320 --> 00:38:53,120
Good.
Would be awesome, yeah.

595
00:38:53,120 --> 00:38:56,600
I wonder if I could say just one
more thing though about where

596
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,200
I'm kind of a vision I have for
this Bill of Rights and this

597
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:09,040
whole message, OK, Because I I'm
have a sense and I think it's

598
00:39:09,040 --> 00:39:13,160
it's my thought just or nudging
me that that this this could be

599
00:39:13,160 --> 00:39:16,720
a, you know, a huge message for
a lot of a lot of people

600
00:39:16,720 --> 00:39:22,720
throughout the world.
And this message is basically

601
00:39:22,720 --> 00:39:29,280
your Rancho Book message.
And so I am hoping that I can

602
00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:34,400
get other folks, other leaders,
experienced leaders and teachers

603
00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:37,800
in the Rancho Book community to
help me spread this.

604
00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:45,920
And specifically spread the
principles in this document to

605
00:39:45,920 --> 00:39:51,320
especially to progressive
religion, religious and

606
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:58,160
spiritual leaders so that they
can in turn take it to their

607
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:02,440
communities and help them, you
know, see these important

608
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:06,720
principles that can help uplift.
You know the religious and

609
00:40:06,720 --> 00:40:08,760
spiritual consciousness for the
world.

610
00:40:09,640 --> 00:40:14,160
But I so I've come up with this
document and I I'm just a really

611
00:40:14,160 --> 00:40:19,160
small flawed person trying to do
sort of a big thing and I would

612
00:40:19,160 --> 00:40:24,560
just love some help from from
those people in the new Rancho

613
00:40:24,560 --> 00:40:26,920
book community have been in the
trenches for years.

614
00:40:26,920 --> 00:40:31,240
I know so many of them have have
devoted their lives to this.

615
00:40:31,240 --> 00:40:34,240
I mean, you've done a lot too
and I'm just getting started.

616
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:39,400
So anybody who has any interest
in this, go to my website when

617
00:40:39,400 --> 00:40:43,560
it's up, read it.
And I'm also planning on

618
00:40:43,560 --> 00:40:46,680
recording, you know, a version
of it, just reading it so people

619
00:40:46,680 --> 00:40:50,080
don't have to to to read it,
They can just listen to it.

620
00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:55,280
And please get back to me if you
have any interest if this

621
00:40:55,280 --> 00:40:57,560
resonates with you.
Absolutely.

622
00:40:57,560 --> 00:41:00,640
Teresa Marks in Portland, she
also mentions that.

623
00:41:00,680 --> 00:41:03,280
Did you mention that you played
for the Portland OR Opera

624
00:41:03,280 --> 00:41:06,680
Orchestra and other orchestras
in and around the area and

625
00:41:06,680 --> 00:41:09,160
you're a resident of Salem, OR,
which is a beautiful part of the

626
00:41:09,160 --> 00:41:11,000
country.
I wish you luck.

627
00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,320
I'll send you prayers.
After all, you're not that far

628
00:41:14,320 --> 00:41:18,840
from Portland and it's really
good to speak with you and get

629
00:41:18,840 --> 00:41:21,480
to know you.
And I love your spirit and I I

630
00:41:21,480 --> 00:41:24,200
look forward to having you on
again when when you get the

631
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,560
website up and talk more about
your your journey as well as

632
00:41:27,560 --> 00:41:29,560
your mission.
So thank you Teresa Marks, for

633
00:41:29,560 --> 00:41:31,400
joining me on The Ranch Radio
Podcast.

634
00:41:32,200 --> 00:41:34,080
Well, thank you so much Jim for
having me.

635
00:41:34,080 --> 00:41:37,440
This is my my first time doing
anything like this and I really

636
00:41:37,440 --> 00:41:38,280
appreciate it.