Of God and Nature - Interview with Stephen C Meyer

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It's good to have you here and I
appreciate you joining me.

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My, my, this is something that
I'm into completely.

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I've always been a big believer
in the intelligent design

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hypothesis and clearly you are
as well.

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Let me introduce you to my
audience, Stephen C Meyer has

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received a PhD in the philosophy
of science from the University

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of Cambridge, a former
geophysicist and college

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professor.
He now directs discovery

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institute's Center for Science,
and culture in Seattle and

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addition to two Myers landmarks
book.

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The New York Times bestselling
Darwin's doubt the explosive

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origin of animal life, and the
case for intelligent design and

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the book signature of in the
cell DNA and the evidence for

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intelligent design.
And then of course, the

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peer-reviewed volume Darwinism
design and public education

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published in 2004, Michigan
State University.

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And explore Evolution also
published in 2007.

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So it is clear, has it always
been the case?

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Stephen, that you are a
proponent of intelligent design,

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always, or did it happen?
Because of some discovery that

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you had?
Well, it has I first became

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interested in the idea in the
mid 80s when I was a very young

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scientist.
I attended a conference in

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Dallas where I was working.
I was working at the time as a

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geophysicist doing what was
called Digital Signal processing

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which is an early form of
Information Technology and I

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attended a conference on the
origin of life and the origin of

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the universe to great big
subjects that intersect science

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and philosophy and discovered
listening to a very spirited

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discussion on a panel between
proponents of what was then not

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really even called.
And design it was just a very

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nascent idea that there must be
some sort of intelligent cause

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that played a role in the origin
of life.

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On the one hand and on the other
there were proponents of a

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strictly chemical evolutionary
theory proposed that you could

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explain the origin of the first
life as a result of undirected

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chemical processes and both
sides in the discussion agreed.

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That the problem of the origin
of the first life had not been

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solved, there wasn't an adequate
chemical evolutionary theory and

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the big Do they both recognize
both sides, recognize was the

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origin of the information that's
stored in DNA and other large

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called bio macromolecules,
things like RNA and proteins,

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and that on the one side that
the proponents of the chemical

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evolutionary approach, that hey,
give us more time.

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We'll figure this out.
And on the other side, the

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scientists were saying, well,
wait a minute isn't information.

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Typically a product of mind.
At that point, I got really

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intrigued, maybe what we're
looking at at the foundation of

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life in the code that stored in
the DNA, the digital code that

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stored is actually evidence of a
designing intelligence.

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And so, I ended entered into
some fascinating conversations

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with some of the scientists I
met at that conference who are

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proponents of this idea that
later became known as the theory

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of intelligent design or the
evidence for intelligent design.

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I went to grad school and
Cambridge for four years, did a

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PhD on origin of Life biology.
And by the time I finished that

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I was pretty convinced that we
were in fact, looking at

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evidence of design in the cell.
And so I think sometime in the

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late 80s, early 90s, I became
convinced of intelligent design

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and I've been working on it ever
since.

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It's interesting because in
philosophy classes that I took

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in college particularly around
1991, there was a lot of

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discussion about intelligent
design, creationism versus

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random causation, and It was
always a sticking point that it

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seemed to me even then that
science was hesitant to embrace

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any notion of intelligent design
because it it almost gives

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Credence to the idea of a God or
an all-powerful and you'd have

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to be an all-powerful Creator.
In order to design such a

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complex living organism as the
universe with all of its

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anticipated.
So how is it that science can.

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Bill with a straight face assume
hypothetically that random

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causation is how we got here by
accident?

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How can they how can they put
Faith in that kind of?

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You know, there is a sometimes
unspoken but sometimes spoken

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rule of method but many
scientists adhere to and regard

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as effectively normative for
them and that rule has a name

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it's called methodological
naturalism.

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And it states, simply that if
you're going to explain

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something scientifically, you
must limit yourself to strictly

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materialistic.
Explanations those based on

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chance or Randomness as you
mentioned, or other types of

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materialistic explanation such
as natural laws or undirected

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processes like natural
selection.

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The problem with that rule
though is that in many in many

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Realms of science, it's not a
problematic rule first, I should

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say that.
Because in many Realms of

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science are just asking, how
does one part of nature, affect

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another part and questions of
that form, give rise naturally

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to questions about what nature
is doing on its own unassisted

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by intelligence.
But if you're asking questions

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about causal Origins, and
ultimate causal, Origins

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questions about the origin of
the first life, or questions

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about the origin of the
universe, or questions about how

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the universe acquired.
Its finely-tuned structure.

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An answer might be Adequate
answer might involve only

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undirected material processes
but the right answer might also

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involve the idea of creative
intelligence that may be a mind

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played a role in some of the
features in the origin of some

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of the features that we see in
life for the universe.

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And so if you close yourself off
from that possibility, ah,

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priori before you have any
experience before, you've even

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examined the data you may be,
you may end up because of your

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rule of method, missed the
Answer, you may not get the best

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explanation.
You may only get the best

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explanation among an
artificially limited set of

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materialistic possibilities.
And so, one of the things we've

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been doing, in the intelligent
design, research Community is

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not only looking at the evidence
striking, evidence of design in

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life and the universe and our
planetary system and other other

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parts of nature.
But also challenging that rule

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of method and suggesting that we
need to have a more open

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philosophy of science that
allows us to consider the best

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explanation, whatever, whether
it conforms to those

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materialistic sensibilities or
not.

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And and so much of my work has
actually been involved with

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challenging.
The rule of method known as

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methodological naturalism and
showing that it's it's

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intellectually limiting for the
scientist and really, we want to

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follow the evidence and come up
with the best explanation.

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No-holds-barred is one of
Michael.

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Yeah.
So, and and so, where did this

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come from?
I've done some reading on the

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early, Enlightenment,
Enlightenment period, the Age of

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Reason, if you will, and it
seemed to me more of a reaction

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to the overbearing Church, they
there was such an attempt to get

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away from the grips of this
Authority authoritative and

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clergy that, you know, we all
know the story of Galileo and

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Copernicus, and a lot of these
early scientists were actually

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excommunicated because of their
Views of a solar system instead

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of an earth Centrist universe.
So was was the secularism that

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was part of the early fabric of
science.

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A reaction to distance itself
from religion.

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Well, I think there was a
movement in philosophy.

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Actually, when you mentioned the
tone, is The Enlightenment, the

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famous movement in philosophy
which was an attempt to

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establish the legitimacy of
human reason, apart from divine

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revelation and and a separation
of reason and Revelation,

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although there were theistic and
Christian versions of the

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Enlightenment as well.
So it was not a unitary kind of

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movement, but there was a very
secular Emphasis in some parts

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of or in some some Enlightenment
thinkers and in as that if began

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to that began to affect science
in the 19th century.

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And there was a, there's a
famous philosopher named August

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comped, his argued that science
is it progresses goes through

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three stages.
There's a theological stage,

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which is essentially
mythological, he thought you

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know, invoking God's and
Thunderbolts and that sort of

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thing and then there's a
Philosophical stage.

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There he exemplified by people
like Aristotle and Plato with

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Concepts like the forms or
things like that.

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And then there's a positive
stage where we explain

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everything by reference to
Natural laws.

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And that's the scientific stage.
And so science in the way he

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defined.
It necessarily must extricate

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itself from theological
superstitions and explain

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everything.
By reference to undirected

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material processes in Laws of
nature Darwin was very much

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influenced by comped and in the
Origin of Species.

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You saw this for the first time
or one of the first times, this

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kind of intentional rhetorical
strategy of defining, any

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explanation by reference to
creative intelligence, or mind

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or design, or God as an
unscientific explanation.

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So in Darwin was looking at a
phenomenon known as homology,

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the similarity of structure in
different organisms,

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Morphological structure.
He said, well, you know, there

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is this other explanation idea
that the similarity is the

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result of divine, Divine or
design, but he said, but he

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says, but that's not a
scientific explanation, though.

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Acknowledged that it could
explain the data, but it was not

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the similarity might be the
result of a common design from a

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chronic singular intelligence,
but he said that's not a

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scientific Nation and therefore
he elected.

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His alternative is the only one
that could really be considered.

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And yeah, and we've seen this
rhetorical strategy now played

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out in these Origins questions
for 160 years and intelligent

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design movement.
As you mentioned is challenging

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that because there are there are
very striking indicators of

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design in living systems, for
example, that are not well,

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explained by undirected material
processes, but are exactly the

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kind of thing that we know to be
the case.

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No, to no.2 have Arisen base.
On our uniform and repeated

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experience from the activity of
intelligence.

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And one of those strike most
striking indicators is

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information, especially
information, that is functional

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and is expressed in a digital or
alphabetic form.

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And that's essentially what we
have in living systems, Stephen

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Meyer is my guest, a philosopher
of science, author of some

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incredible Works, which we'll
get into it in more detail.

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So are we any closer to
understanding how the mind

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before I asked you that I argued
once too?

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Professor of religion at a
university, who was an admitted

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atheist.
I said, well, how do you?

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How do you explain pattern and
consistency of laws are they not

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denoting of intelligence?
Because patterns after all do

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indicate form and form is not
accidental form is adheres to

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strict laws of physical science.
So even in observing physical

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laws we observe Serve patterns
that repeat at different levels,

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varying levels, for example, a
simple drop of a, you know, a

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pebble in in a pond.
You see?

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A concentric Circle that moves
out uniformly.

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It's not haphazard, it's not
variable, it's in a uniform

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pattern.
So, I've argued that pattern

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itself is a great clue to the
fact that the Universe, however,

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it came to be and however, we
came to be must have been a

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pre-planned event and it seems
to be That there's more of an

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argument for that rather than
random causation.

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Well, the early scientists
Newton boil Kepler, for example,

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thought that what we call the
laws of nature are actually an

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expression of divine action that
the term laws of nature was as

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one historian has putted a
juridical metaphor of

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theological origin.
There are laws in nature.

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There are these regularities
because there is a law Giver or

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law sustainer someone who's
sustaining the The orderly

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Concourse of Nature, and this
was actually Newton's View and

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it was expressed in his Grand
work, the principia, which was

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exploring the, the mathematical
structure of nature, as a way of

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understanding the mind of God.
And he wrote a theological

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epilogue, to the principia
called, the general Schoo.

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Liam in which he essentially
paraphrase, that passage from

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The book of Colossians where it
says in God, all things are are

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held together.
And so this is, this is a very

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venerable view of what the laws
of nature are these patterns

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that we see these patterns of
regularity now naturalist.

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So naturalistically minded
philosophers have said, well,

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the laws of nature are in
essence, the ground of all

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being.
They are the primary.

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See the thing that explains
everything else, Sean Carroll is

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said that naturalism is the
world view that holds that that

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ultimately there are.
There's a series of explanations

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in terms of natural processes
that ultimately Finds Its the

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00:14:37,600 --> 00:14:40,400
Finds Its ultimate explanation
in the laws of nature and then

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you can go no further.
So, for the, the naturalistic

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00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:47,900
philosophers opposed to the
theistic one, the laws of nature

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are the ultimate explanatory.
Suppose the ultimate realities

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and they need no further
explanation.

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They just are what we've been
doing in the, in the intelligent

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design movement is showing that
there's another way to detect

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design besides just merely
pattern.

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And that is the idea that when
you have events or systems that

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exhibit, both a pattern, that we
know independently from some

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00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:18,100
other realm of experience and
that pattern is highly

242
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improbable.
Improbable as it were against

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the backdrop of what nature
ordinarily does.

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Then we can detect the special
action of this, Divine

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intelligence, or of some
intelligence.

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And so for example we often use
the faces on the Mountain at

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Mount Rushmore is an example,
there's a pattern there but it's

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a highly improbable in a regular
pattern that you would not

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expect to arise based on wind
and erosion or other natural

250
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processes and it's a pattern
that we recognize from Pendant

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experience.
So when we see those faces, we

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immediately recognized the
designing intelligence must have

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been involved.
The idea that that God is the

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ultimate explanation for the
regularities of nature is a

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possible explanation, but in the
case of a pattern that's also

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highly improbable against what
natural laws typically produce,

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then we have an argument that is
not just possible but definitely

258
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the best or the we have evidence
of design is the best

259
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:24,200
explanation not It possible
explanation and the kind of in

260
00:16:24,200 --> 00:16:30,200
the other kind of indicator of
design that we've identified.

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That's that's decisive, is the
presence of information because

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we know of only one known cause
for information again especially

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as we find it in a digital or
alphabetic form, and that's what

264
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we have in DNA.
Bill Gates has said that DNA is

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like a software program but much
more complex than any we've ever

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created.
Richard Dawkins, the great

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scientific atheist from Great
Britain has himself acknowledged

268
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that DNA contains machine code.
One of our great biotech

269
00:16:59,000 --> 00:17:03,700
Engineers bio technicians Leroy
Hood out here in Seattle has

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00:17:03,700 --> 00:17:06,599
said that DNA, simply contains
digital code.

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Well, what we know from
experience is that such code

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always arises from a programmer
and in fact, whenever we see

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00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:17,599
information and we trace it back
to its ultimate source, whether

274
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we're talking about A paragraph
and a book or hieroglyphic

275
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inscription, or information
embedded in a radio signal, or

276
00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:30,600
information in a computer
program of some kind.

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We always trace it back or come
ultimately, to am I not an

278
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undirected material process.
So the laws of nature May well

279
00:17:39,500 --> 00:17:45,200
be a product of of an
underlying, The Hidden Hand of

280
00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,500
God, if you will.
But when we encounter

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00:17:47,500 --> 00:17:53,300
information in a In a complex
functional and digital form.

282
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We have decisive evidence of
intelligent design and that's

283
00:17:56,300 --> 00:17:58,700
that's where we've laid the
stress in our work.

284
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And is this because we have
become better at looking and

285
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evaluating our own DNA and how
it works.

286
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And because up until recently,
we that the new area of

287
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:14,700
exploration, is it not DNA as
well getting into the

288
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,900
Breakthrough and yeah, thanks
for asking, sorry to interrupt

289
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:23,300
the, the The Breakthrough in
this area of study came in the

290
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:27,200
1950s and 60s in a period that
historians of science.

291
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:29,500
Now called the molecular
biological Revolution, it wasn't

292
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:32,700
that long ago, but Watson and
Crick elucidated the structure

293
00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:38,500
of DNA in 1953 in 57 and 58
Creek.

294
00:18:40,700 --> 00:18:44,000
Propose, something he called the
sequence hypothesis, which was

295
00:18:44,000 --> 00:18:47,400
the idea that the chemical
subunits that run along the

296
00:18:47,400 --> 00:18:50,500
interior of the DNA molecule.
If you think back to high school

297
00:18:50,500 --> 00:18:53,300
biology, think of that twisting,
he looks right.

298
00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,800
And along the inside of that
Helix there are chemical

299
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:01,000
subunits called bases, that run
up and down the spine of the

300
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:04,300
Helix some on each side.
There's what they call

301
00:19:04,300 --> 00:19:08,000
complementary base pairing and
all that, but creek, proposed

302
00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,300
that those those subunits called
basis.

303
00:19:10,500 --> 00:19:14,700
Are functioning like alphabetic
characters in a written text or

304
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,200
we could say now, like the zeros
and ones in a section of

305
00:19:17,200 --> 00:19:21,300
software which is to say that
the basis do not perform their

306
00:19:21,300 --> 00:19:24,900
function in virtue of their
chemical properties, or their

307
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:28,600
shapes, or their, the mass or
anything like that, or physical

308
00:19:28,600 --> 00:19:30,800
or chemical properties.
But instead in virtue of their

309
00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:34,000
arrangement, in a chord with an
independent symbol convention,

310
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:38,000
which is similar to the nine
Realms of genetic codes inside

311
00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:41,000
life, we have genetic code and
genetic text And that's where

312
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,800
this all began.
This information based analysis

313
00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,900
of life.
That's fascinating.

314
00:19:46,300 --> 00:19:51,600
And do would you say that having
gone this far where did life or

315
00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,200
how do you feel it?
Oh, by the way, I just read the

316
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,800
other day that they have now
completed the whole genetic code

317
00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:00,000
of humanity, right?
This is something I read in

318
00:20:00,300 --> 00:20:04,600
where they have mapped out.
The entire genome structure of

319
00:20:04,600 --> 00:20:09,300
the human DNA, is that?
Well, I think Francis Crick

320
00:20:09,300 --> 00:20:10,400
first.
Announced the completion.

321
00:20:10,500 --> 00:20:15,600
Pleat sequencing of the human
genome in 2000, and Craig

322
00:20:15,600 --> 00:20:18,200
Venter.
Had a big hand in that there

323
00:20:18,200 --> 00:20:20,900
were both private and publicly
funded groups working on that.

324
00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:25,600
And they keep making advances in
categorizing, the genetic

325
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,300
information that's contained
therein.

326
00:20:27,300 --> 00:20:29,600
But yeah, this is a big
discovery that, you know, even

327
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,900
our human genome we've known
since Watson is about the

328
00:20:33,900 --> 00:20:37,300
mid-60s.
W are sorry since the mid-60s

329
00:20:37,300 --> 00:20:39,900
crick's hypothesis of the
sequence.

330
00:20:40,400 --> 00:20:43,400
Has been well established.
It was confirmed by a series of

331
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,200
experiments on both sides of the
Atlantic.

332
00:20:45,200 --> 00:20:49,100
It was, it was not the kind of
prediction or proposal that you

333
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:53,300
could, you could confirm with
one simple experiment, it was

334
00:20:53,300 --> 00:20:56,700
really a matter of mapping out
how the information in the DNA

335
00:20:56,700 --> 00:21:00,000
is directing the construction of
the proteins and protein

336
00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:02,700
machines that keep cells alive.
That's called the gene

337
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:06,700
expression system or system for
protein synthesis.

338
00:21:06,700 --> 00:21:11,000
So since then we've known that
crick's idea was was Essentially

339
00:21:11,000 --> 00:21:15,400
correct.
And and then there have been a

340
00:21:15,400 --> 00:21:20,500
vast advances in field known as
bioinformatics in which we've

341
00:21:20,500 --> 00:21:25,500
been able to map the genomes of
of letter by letter to figure

342
00:21:25,500 --> 00:21:28,900
out a what's there and and and
increasingly probably what

343
00:21:28,900 --> 00:21:30,600
you're referring to is, we're
getting more and more

344
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:32,800
information about what the
different sections of the genome

345
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,800
do.
And we've been able to do that

346
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,200
for scientists, have been able
to do that for multiple

347
00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:42,500
organisms, so understanding
Informational properties at the

348
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:46,300
foundation of life.
For many different organisms has

349
00:21:46,300 --> 00:21:51,800
been a big part of biology.
Certainly, since since year

350
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:57,100
2000, this is exciting stuff and
I know we don't have a all day

351
00:21:57,100 --> 00:21:59,300
because I could go all day on
this one.

352
00:21:59,900 --> 00:22:04,100
Let's talk about the mind for a
minute is mind a physical

353
00:22:04,500 --> 00:22:05,600
reality.
In other words?

354
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:10,000
Or is it super imposed upon the
mechanism of our conscience?

355
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:13,200
In other, Words, it does it act
independently of the material

356
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,900
world and that's what, what do
we know about the mind that we

357
00:22:16,900 --> 00:22:19,200
didn't know?
What are the recent discoveries?

358
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:22,800
We've learned about the mind.
That lead you to believe that

359
00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:28,000
there might be a universal mind.
Well, there are two different

360
00:22:28,700 --> 00:22:32,400
basic views of What's called the
mind-body question.

361
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:37,400
One is that, is that the
material brain is primary and

362
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:41,200
what we experience as
Consciousness is a kind of

363
00:22:43,000 --> 00:22:48,500
epiphenomenon or byproduct of
material processes, but it isn't

364
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:55,200
really, no way a separate kind
of reality and that everything

365
00:22:55,200 --> 00:23:00,800
that We experience is a very
direct product of neuro

366
00:23:00,800 --> 00:23:05,800
physiological processes.
The other view is that the rain

367
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:10,600
is being used by the mind as an
organ of sense and an organ of

368
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:15,800
thought.
And and so that the mind is, is

369
00:23:16,100 --> 00:23:20,600
actually the mental realm is
really quite separate.

370
00:23:20,700 --> 00:23:24,300
From the the material, the
material substrate that does

371
00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:27,000
indeed make it possible.
But the idea here is that the

372
00:23:27,000 --> 00:23:30,500
brain is a necessary, but not
sufficient condition of what's

373
00:23:30,500 --> 00:23:34,600
taking place in the mind.
We can reason because of the

374
00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:37,100
properties are powers of our
minds.

375
00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,800
Our reasoning is not governed by
the neurophysiological events

376
00:23:41,800 --> 00:23:44,300
that are taking place in our
synapses or something.

377
00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:47,400
So it's not the chemistry isn't
determining our thought, the

378
00:23:47,400 --> 00:23:52,200
chemistry makes possible the
mines function, the the

379
00:23:52,200 --> 00:23:55,200
neurochemistry of the brain, but
it's necessary.

380
00:23:55,200 --> 00:23:58,400
But not Efficient and that
they're the Mind.

381
00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:04,100
Therefore has its own
capabilities and - spontaneous

382
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,500
and it deliberate it.
Yeah, the most and I tend to the

383
00:24:07,500 --> 00:24:10,000
second view, I think in the mind
and I think there's a lot of,

384
00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:13,100
there's actually, a lot of
physiological evidence that the

385
00:24:13,400 --> 00:24:17,600
what's going on in the brain,
cannot explain everything that's

386
00:24:17,600 --> 00:24:19,900
going on in the mind and the
mind is using the brain.

387
00:24:19,900 --> 00:24:22,800
And I think all of us have the
sense that we can make choices,

388
00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:28,700
you know, I lift my arm.
I'm putting in motion a new

389
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,400
series of cause and effect
events that and that that begin

390
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:36,700
with a choice in my mind, not as
a result of something that

391
00:24:36,700 --> 00:24:39,600
happened.
In my, my brain, something

392
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:43,100
happens in my brain as a result
of my mental choice, but the

393
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:48,300
mental is primary, and I think
that's when people actually

394
00:24:48,300 --> 00:24:53,100
think about this deeply and are
introspective about the powers

395
00:24:53,100 --> 00:24:56,500
of their own agency.
We all are Consciously aware

396
00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:59,600
beings.
We have an intuitive awareness

397
00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:03,600
of what our minds can do.
We all sense that we can

398
00:25:03,600 --> 00:25:06,900
initiate new lines of cause and
effect?

399
00:25:07,600 --> 00:25:10,000
That is to say, we can make
choices that make a difference

400
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,900
in how things happen in the
physical world.

401
00:25:13,300 --> 00:25:18,800
So there I think as
counterintuitive as it is in a

402
00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:22,000
materialistic, scientific age to
think of something immaterial,

403
00:25:22,000 --> 00:25:25,200
controlling, something material,
I think that's actually much

404
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:29,000
more Consistent with our own
direct introspective experience

405
00:25:29,000 --> 00:25:33,600
of what mines do and what we as
thinking self conscious agents

406
00:25:34,500 --> 00:25:38,500
and of the powers that we as
self-conscious agents have, this

407
00:25:38,500 --> 00:25:41,700
is obviously a huge discussion,
but I think they're both

408
00:25:41,700 --> 00:25:43,400
philosophical reasons to hold
this.

409
00:25:43,400 --> 00:25:46,600
What's called a mind-body,
duelist position and

410
00:25:46,900 --> 00:25:51,300
neurophysiological experiments
that support the idea that the

411
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,400
mind is not the brain and the
brain is not the mind.

412
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,600
The mind is control.
And using the brain as an organ

413
00:25:57,600 --> 00:26:00,100
of sense.
And thought, I guess you could

414
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,000
put it this way.
You know, you've got an

415
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,100
airplane, you've got a pilot,
you've got a navigator.

416
00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,800
And the pilot seems to know
where the direction it wants to

417
00:26:08,800 --> 00:26:14,200
head and the the airplane
represents, I think the body,

418
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:19,300
the physical body and it's an
interesting and ongoing

419
00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:21,200
discussion.
It's one of the reasons I like

420
00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:24,500
philosophy because you can
discuss it from age to age and

421
00:26:24,500 --> 00:26:26,600
it's just fascinating.
Mating Stephen C, Meyer?

422
00:26:26,600 --> 00:26:31,400
Dot org, is the website Steven
that's stephan1.

423
00:26:32,200 --> 00:26:34,800
See, Meyer dot-org, the author
of The Return of the god

424
00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,200
hypothesis.
Also, his previous Works

425
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:40,900
Darwin's doubt.
And the DSL DNA, and the

426
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:44,000
evidence of intelligent design
and I wish I had more time.

427
00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:47,800
I want to just real quickly,
what were the markers in your

428
00:26:47,800 --> 00:26:50,700
opinion?
That give give give rise to the

429
00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:53,900
hypothesis.
That DNA was an organized

430
00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:56,200
structure.
In other words, it was Find what

431
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:57,900
were some of the markers that
you found?

432
00:26:58,900 --> 00:27:02,800
Well it's it's the presence of
the information.

433
00:27:03,100 --> 00:27:06,500
That's directing the protein
synthesis and the use of a code

434
00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:11,200
to translate the information
from one form into a useful form

435
00:27:11,400 --> 00:27:14,100
of information for the
production of the proteins.

436
00:27:15,100 --> 00:27:20,500
And that's one of the three
indicators of intelligent design

437
00:27:20,500 --> 00:27:22,800
in the universe as the
intelligent design and life in

438
00:27:22,800 --> 00:27:24,400
the book.
I also look at what's called the

439
00:27:24,400 --> 00:27:28,000
fine-tuning of the laws and
constants of physics and the

440
00:27:28,000 --> 00:27:31,200
other Basic physical parameters
that make life possible in the

441
00:27:31,208 --> 00:27:33,000
universe.
So we see not only evidence of

442
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,700
designer Rising long after the
beginning of the universe in the

443
00:27:35,700 --> 00:27:37,900
first life.
But we also see evidence of

444
00:27:37,900 --> 00:27:40,900
design in the fine-tuning of the
physical parameters of the

445
00:27:40,900 --> 00:27:42,400
Universe.
From the very beginning of the

446
00:27:42,400 --> 00:27:45,600
universe, which suggests a
designing intelligence, which is

447
00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:47,900
not only active in the creation.
But also must transcend, the

448
00:27:47,908 --> 00:27:50,200
creation must have the
capability of structuring, the

449
00:27:50,200 --> 00:27:53,900
whole of the creation from the
beginning and then the third key

450
00:27:53,900 --> 00:27:57,300
piece of evidence that I look at
for what I call not just said

451
00:27:57,300 --> 00:27:59,300
intelligent design.
Hi This is but the god

452
00:27:59,300 --> 00:28:03,000
hypothesis.
God as the designer is that the

453
00:28:03,008 --> 00:28:05,900
universe itself, the physical
Universe of matter space time

454
00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,700
and energy had a definite
beginning a finite time ago

455
00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:11,900
before, which it would be
impossible to provide a

456
00:28:12,000 --> 00:28:14,900
materialistic explanation
because before the origin of

457
00:28:14,900 --> 00:28:18,300
matter, there would be no matter
to remove the ultimate causing

458
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:20,600
you need something that
transcends matter space time and

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00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:24,600
energy is capable of initiating.
A huge change of state is

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00:28:24,600 --> 00:28:27,600
immensely powerful and is also
intelligent enough to structure

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00:28:27,600 --> 00:28:29,800
everything to Reduce Ally
friendly Universe.

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00:28:30,300 --> 00:28:33,400
Does that remind you of anyone
exactly the argument of the

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00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,700
book?
I think I would I argue is that

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00:28:36,400 --> 00:28:40,600
a theistic God, insofar as it
has those necessary properties

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00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:43,900
provides, the best explanation
for the origin of life in the

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00:28:43,900 --> 00:28:45,200
universe.
And that's what I call the

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00:28:45,200 --> 00:28:48,700
return of the god hypothesis.
I'm sure it's great.

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00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:51,600
Reading, I encourage people
listening to this podcast to

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00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:53,700
join.
Stephen C Meyer and his journey.

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00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:56,000
It's a Wonderful journey and
he'll show you things.

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00:28:56,000 --> 00:28:58,200
You probably never thought about
before Stephen.

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00:28:58,300 --> 00:29:02,400
C, Meyer dot-org, name of the
book, Return of the god

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00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,300
hypothesis, and I thank you.
It's an honor to speak with you

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00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:08,400
big fan of yours and I hope we
can have you on again real soon.