Making The Case

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Well, some footnotes before we
are joined by Ryan McGuire, who

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has written several books about
the Urancha book, most notably

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the book I want to discuss,
which is called the Making the

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Case for the Urancha Book.
But before we begin, there are a

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few items I'd like to share with
you.

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First of all, Urantia Book
International School is gearing

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up for another semester.
Urantia Book Internet school

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enrollment opens September 8th.
You can choose from multiple

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topics that interest you, and it
is a wonderful way to share and

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learn from fellow readers who
are deep in learning about the

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Urantia revelation.
For more information on how you

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can join the Internet school,
it's free, just go to

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urantiaorg, that's the website
and then in the menu bar look

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for the link that says education
and then you'll be able to find

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the online school.
Secondly, I want to thank the

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folks and there were a lot of
folks that responded have

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reached out to me about the new
24/7 live stream of Urantia

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Radio.
Unlike a podcast, the stream

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requires no downloading.
It is just a real Global Radio

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station with 24 hours a day of
Urantia book related content.

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Now in September, I am going to
air a special Bill Sadler series

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of lectures he gave to the first
Society of the Urantia Book

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readers in the 1960s in
Oklahoma.

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Now, thanks to the Urantia
Foundation Archives, we can air

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these lectures as they were
presented over 80 years ago.

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Now remember that Bill Sadler
Junior was one of one of only

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four human beings part of the
contact Commission back in the

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early 30s and they had limited
conversations with our unseen

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friends.
So Bill brings an extra

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perspective to all of this.
So look for that on the live

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stream.
Go to urantiaradio.org after

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Labor Day and just look for the
live stream.

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Click on the menu and you'll be
able to listen to the entire

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collection of Bill Sadler
lectures from 1961 and 1962.

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And of course, if you want more
information on this or anything

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that we talked about,
urantiabookradio@gmail.com.

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So my interview with Ryan
McGuire, who has achieved a

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major feat, he has authored
several books that make for a

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very convincing case on the fact
that the Urantia book is a true,

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authentic and credible divine
revelation.

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Wait to hear what he has to say.
I read the entire book.

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I enjoyed it, but it makes the
case for the Urantia book.

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So hang on, Ryan is next and
we'll get right to it.

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And by the way, thank you for
joining me on the Urantia Radio

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Podcast.
How?

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How did you discover the Urantia
book and tell us about that

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experience?
Because you grew up a Christian.

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Then you you kind of tossed
Christianity away and then

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something horrible happened to
you.

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Give us, give us that story,
will you?

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OK, yeah, well, I was, I was
incarcerated when I was 26 years

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old and I, I rediscovered my
Christian faith while I was

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locked up, like many people do.
And I actually just kind of

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poured myself into that, reading
the Bible and memorizing

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scriptures and proselytizing and
preaching and things of that

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nature.
I actually worked in the Chapel

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as the chaplain's clerk for
several years.

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And I was basically just an
administrator organizing all the

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different services, the
faith-based storm, all the

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different religious events for
all the different religions.

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And in doing that, I, I got a
pretty solid dose of world

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religions.
Pretty much everybody is

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represented.
And I, I learned that they're,

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they, they all have a lot of
similarities.

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They're all basically they're
just looking for higher truth.

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They're all looking for
fellowship with one another.

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They're, they're, they're
looking for, for meaning and

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purpose in life.
And, and so that kind of stuck

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with me and I didn't know
exactly how to work that into my

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world view at that time.
But Fast forward a few more

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years, about a year before I got
out of prison, a guy in my dorm

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asked me if I had ever heard of
the Urantia book.

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And I had not, which was
surprising to me because I

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worked in the library there for
years, also after the clerk job,

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and I knew pretty much
everything that was available

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there.
But he said he hadn't gotten

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this one from the library.
He had found it.

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He had emailed or he had written
a letter to somebody and they

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had sent it to him.
And I didn't think too much of

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it at that time, but I went to a
class that afternoon and

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somebody in that Class A a, a
different gentleman who lived in

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a different dorm, who did not
know the other guy, asked me if

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I had heard of the Rancho book.
So in one day, two people in two

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different environments asked me
about this book.

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And so it piques my interest at
that point.

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And just so that I don't have to
sound ignorant, the next time

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somebody asks me about the book,
I I borrowed it and started

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looking at it.
And the first thing that struck

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me about the book was the
elevated use of the English

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language.
I considered myself, like I

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said, to be pretty well read,
and I feel comfortable with

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recognizing the voice of most
authors, especially human

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authors.
This was something very

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different.
This had a clearer presentation

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and a more sophisticated model
for presenting information.

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And it wasn't.
It wasn't something you can just

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skim through.
It was something that you had to

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devote your attention to in
order to process the

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information.
That's what immediately struck

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me about it.
That's how I immediately

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recognize that there was
something different about this

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book, the use of English
language.

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And as I started reading, and I
started in Book 4, because of my

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Christian background, I wanted
to know about the life of Jesus.

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The next thing that really stood
out to me was the incredible

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amount of detail in every single
story.

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Creative writers spend years
trying to perfect the ability to

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use detail in such a way that it
immerses the reader in a

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environment, right?
And it takes a lot of training

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and experience to do it
effectively and skillfully.

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The amount of detail in this
book was an enormous selling

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point for its authenticity.
To me, it's it's extremely

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difficult to conjure that type
of that level of detail in in a

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story and to do it harmoniously
and consistently throughout the

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entire epic.
The entire dialogue is again,

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was something I had not
encountered before.

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It was, it was on a level all
its own.

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And so these two, these two
points are really what drew me

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into it.
And I, after that I, I, I worked

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my way back.
It took me about 3 months to

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read the entire thing.
Two, sometimes three papers a

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day.
After I finished Book 4, I went

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to three, then two, then one,
and I was still taken by the

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work that I wanted to share it
with people, right?

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I felt like I had discovered
something incredible and I

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immediately wanted to share it
with people.

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The problem was, like you said
earlier, it kept coming out.

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I hate to say the word nonsense,
but it just it came out as a

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crazy story because I couldn't
fluidly describe what it was

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about and what was happening in
this story without jumping all

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over the place and chasing
rabbits and sounding like some

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fanatic.
Really.

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Almost like a groupie, you know,
like if you know, like you're a,

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a Trekkie or something, you
know, you start talking about

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it.
No matter how you try to make it

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as simple, it ends up going from
really kind of simple, Yo,

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that's kind of cool.
And then you start getting into

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the nitty gritty and then it,
it, I think it's, it's an

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appropriate feeling to want to
share, but the light can be a

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little bit blinding to people
who are not familiar with the

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terms or, you know, what do you
mean, Marancia?

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What's that?
You know, I had my wife.

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It's interesting if when I first
met my wife, I said, you need to

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know this about me.
Here's the book that I base my

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entire philosophy of life on.
And so she read a little bit of

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it and then she went online and
started doing research.

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And of course she comes across
the great mystery cult and a few

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other critiques of the Urantia
book.

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And so the, the, the discussion
was, well, how do you know it's

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true?
That's always what people say.

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Well, how would, how would you
know it's possibly true?

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And I say, well, you know, it
makes sense that it's true.

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And it's so wonderfully written.
Like you just said, it says

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it's, it's of a level of, of, of
I don't know, you know, like a

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somebody with a PhD writing
about mitochondrial DNA.

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You know, it's it's above
anything that I've ever

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experienced.
And they say, well, yeah, great

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novels are written that way,
too, Jim.

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I mean, you know, somebody had
to come up with Star Wars.

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I mean, somebody could make all
that shit up.

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And I'm like, OK, well clearly
you know, the Spirit is not

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moving in the direction you know
so well.

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What I, what I experienced in
my, because I, I've experienced

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everything that you just
described with virtually every

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single person that I have tried
to reach out to, every,

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everybody that I have tried to
share with.

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The arguments that you just said
your wife made are the same ones

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that I have encountered, even my
own family.

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It's, it's this belief that,
well, anybody can come up with a

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story like that.
And it that, that boggles my

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mind.
And I'm not sure if I'm taking

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for granted my education or if
these people are not as well

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read and they don't understand
the voice of human authors.

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Because there's a clear
distinction between what has

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been written by man, even at a
PhD level, at a doctoral level,

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this supersedes it.
It's, it's, it's, it's far more

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complex.
There's, there's, there's, there

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is no comparison in the
complexity.

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And so again, this was
frustrating to me.

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And really I, I, on some level I
took it personally because it's,

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it feels like an insult to my
intelligence when they look at

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me like I'm crazy and ask me,
how can I believe something like

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this?
So I began working while I was

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in prison on these ideas for
these books because I wanted to

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make the material manageable,
more accessible to a broader

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audience.
And that was, and that was

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something that I saw as a, a
means to help people access it

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and process it.
Instead of having to read 2000

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pages, I've written books that
are, you know, less than 100

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pages each focusing on specific
aspects.

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A couple of them are synopsis is
breaking down major themes

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within it just generally, and
then a couple of them focus on

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specific ideas like world
government or world religion.

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And and then of course, the the
case for the Urantia book is I

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think the greatest book that I
have to offer for this movement.

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It's my defense of every
skeptics argument that the the

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book is a hoax, that the the
book is the work of some clever

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person's imagination.
It's and as you, as you, as you

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said when you read the book,
you, you, you agreed with what I

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had written.
Yeah, let me read something from

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your book to kind of give the
listeners an idea of how you

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tackle the subject matter
because I think it's that makes

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the case for your book.
Let me read a little bit of what

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Ryan McGuire writes in the case
for the Urantia book from paper

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or page 32.
He says this authority referring

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to the book, is evident in the
way the book handles the

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subjects that are traditionally
considered beyond the reach of

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human understanding, such as the
nature of God, the organization

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of celestial beings, and the
ultimate destiny of human beings

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and the soul.
And in these discussions, the

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celestial authors do not present
speculative theories or

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philosophical arguments.
They offer direct accounts and

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explanations based on their own
observations and the experience

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in the higher realms.
This distinction is important

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because it shifts the Urantia
book from being a work of

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religious or philosophical
speculation to a work that

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presents itself as a revelation
of factual knowledge from divine

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sources.
And the keyword is divine.

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And you make that point, Ryan,
throughout the book that it does

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not come across as if a self
help book that's offering you a

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theory on how you can be at one
at the universe.

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And, and you get that a lot from
a lot of books where they go off

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into gobbledygook and they use
like, there's this woman, I

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won't mention her name, but
she's been around for a while.

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And the longer you listen to
people that are of a, what they

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00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:09,240
would consider to be of a
spiritual nature, as if they've,

227
00:18:09,640 --> 00:18:13,280
they've tapped into some source
that you and I have not yet been

228
00:18:13,280 --> 00:18:15,840
able to penetrate.
And usually when you listen to

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00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:18,920
somebody long enough, you can
tell whether they're making the,

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00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:22,720
making it up or, you know, maybe
they're, they're, they have

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00:18:22,720 --> 00:18:26,320
their own version of Taoism.
And believe me, like you, I've,

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I've, I've looked at all kinds
Eckankar Course in Miracles,

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Scientology, I've examined these
and I, and I, it doesn't take

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long to find something where you
say that doesn't sound right,

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but you don't get that with the
Urantia book.

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And I think that's what your
case was.

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Exactly what you find in all
other spiritual texts is an

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agenda of some of some nature it
they they're trying to get

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00:18:57,080 --> 00:19:05,560
people to follow their path to
salvation based on an exclusive

240
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,400
experience that only they can
offer right.

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00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:17,640
And what the Urantia book offers
is a universal understanding of

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what religion actually is.
It's not, it's not exclusive.

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00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:26,000
There's no such thing as a
chosen people.

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00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:31,120
It it breaks down those barriers
and explains from an outside

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perspective that what you're all
experiencing is the same desire

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00:19:37,360 --> 00:19:41,200
to reach God, to find God, to be
with God.

247
00:19:42,480 --> 00:19:52,680
And the only difference between
you is where those religions

248
00:19:52,680 --> 00:19:57,280
have evolved.
It's your personal cultures

249
00:19:57,880 --> 00:20:05,120
evolving around that God focused
desire that has created

250
00:20:05,120 --> 00:20:10,400
differences among you.
But at your core, you're all

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00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:13,840
just.
You're all following your

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00:20:13,840 --> 00:20:19,840
thought adjuster and this that's
what makes this book so, so

253
00:20:19,840 --> 00:20:24,920
unique there.
It's not it's not offer.

254
00:20:24,920 --> 00:20:29,360
It's not a cult in the sense
that it offers a single way to

255
00:20:29,880 --> 00:20:34,880
salvation, right in the, the in
the Bible, Jesus has portrayed

256
00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:40,400
us saying nobody comes to the
Father except through me and the

257
00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,120
and Pauline Christianity has ran
with this saying that if you do

258
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:50,000
not believe in Christ, then you
are going to hell.

259
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:57,360
So it's a, it's an exclusionary
form of religion that Christ

260
00:20:57,360 --> 00:21:04,880
never intended to be created
about him.

261
00:21:05,760 --> 00:21:11,160
He came to show us that we are
all one people.

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00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:15,880
There's all only one God.
We are all seeking that one God.

263
00:21:17,720 --> 00:21:22,600
And so that is, that's, that's
why I think this work is so

264
00:21:22,600 --> 00:21:25,560
important.
That's why I think the secondary

265
00:21:25,560 --> 00:21:28,640
works are so important.
And I think that's why it's so

266
00:21:28,640 --> 00:21:37,440
important for a defense to be
made that can be understood and

267
00:21:37,440 --> 00:21:41,800
easily read and makes sense.
Yeah, this is kind of the age of

268
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,680
the second, maybe third
generation really.

269
00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,080
We're still, there are still
people around who were around

270
00:21:48,400 --> 00:21:51,320
when the book was being
articulated back in the 30s and

271
00:21:51,320 --> 00:21:53,680
40s, but not many.
It's kind of like, you know, the

272
00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,440
World War 2 vets, you know,
they're pretty soon there won't

273
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,080
be any, you know, and now we're
in that sort of subsequent

274
00:22:00,080 --> 00:22:04,120
period of, you know, you might
even correlate it with the maybe

275
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,720
the 1st century after the
apostles had passed away.

276
00:22:06,720 --> 00:22:11,920
And now what they've left behind
is, is, you know, so we continue

277
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:15,360
the work in our way.
But again, you know, compliments

278
00:22:15,360 --> 00:22:17,160
to you.
Now you've written other books.

279
00:22:17,160 --> 00:22:21,880
And I noticed that you I, I did,
I didn't critique it.

280
00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:27,400
I, I complimented the book on
Amazon, but I was left, but I

281
00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,760
was left wanting more.
And that was because, you know,

282
00:22:30,760 --> 00:22:33,160
I know the book.
So I was hoping you would go

283
00:22:33,160 --> 00:22:37,200
more into, you know, the, the
details of Jesus's life.

284
00:22:37,440 --> 00:22:39,880
But I understand because you've
written other books that also

285
00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,120
cover this.
Was it?

286
00:22:41,320 --> 00:22:44,560
Was it?
How hard was it for you to make

287
00:22:44,560 --> 00:22:51,480
the case?
For the book The Case for the

288
00:22:51,560 --> 00:22:53,960
Rancher book.
Yeah, like how did you, when you

289
00:22:53,960 --> 00:22:58,760
picked and chose the different,
you know, like you're a lawyer

290
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:01,800
and and here's your case you
had, you had probably started

291
00:23:01,800 --> 00:23:04,240
with a whole bunch of stuff that
you wanted to cover and then you

292
00:23:04,240 --> 00:23:07,560
kind of had to narrow it down.
Actually, though, I just, I

293
00:23:07,560 --> 00:23:11,720
started with the things that
were most most glaringly obvious

294
00:23:11,720 --> 00:23:16,920
to me, the things that really
stood out to me, that jumped out

295
00:23:16,920 --> 00:23:19,800
at me.
The the use of the English

296
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:25,560
language, the complexity of
subject matter, the incredible

297
00:23:25,560 --> 00:23:32,280
amount of detail.
I move on to the, the, the, the

298
00:23:32,280 --> 00:23:37,040
financial incentive that has
been completely overlooked.

299
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:38,200
Well, there.
Isn't.

300
00:23:38,520 --> 00:23:41,200
There.
There the fact that there isn't.

301
00:23:41,200 --> 00:23:48,120
Didn't right, which is the
number one reason for any hoax

302
00:23:48,200 --> 00:23:54,120
to be created and put out into
the world is to create a

303
00:23:54,120 --> 00:23:58,200
following that people put their
money into Scientology being a

304
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:02,200
perfect example.
But any religion, you know, the

305
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:06,240
Catholic Church, whatever you
want is it's, it's a, it's a

306
00:24:06,240 --> 00:24:10,760
money game.
And the Rancho book is not

307
00:24:10,800 --> 00:24:15,040
there's there's no, there's no
ulterior motive that would

308
00:24:15,360 --> 00:24:19,480
indicate a a hoax of that
nature.

309
00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:24,440
Yeah, yeah.
I again, you know, and clarify,

310
00:24:25,200 --> 00:24:28,680
you know, here's one.
I, I would probably in the time

311
00:24:28,680 --> 00:24:31,160
that we've had since I finished
reading the book and I knew you

312
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:33,840
were coming on, Ryan and I
wanted to have this

313
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:37,560
conversation.
And I, I said to myself, you

314
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:41,040
know, Meredith Sprunger, if I'm
sure you may have heard the

315
00:24:41,040 --> 00:24:46,400
name, but he said, you know, if,
if the universe isn't like it's

316
00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:50,120
described in the Urantia book,
then what the hell is it?

317
00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,520
What else could it be other than
an organized, organized

318
00:24:54,520 --> 00:25:00,760
structure with an eternal, I
mean, at its core, we are in the

319
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:04,600
universe building mode and we
are all participating in that

320
00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,680
along with the, you know, what
else could it be?

321
00:25:10,480 --> 00:25:13,320
It is the question I would pose
to anybody.

322
00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:16,400
Well, and.
Our our scientists and our

323
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:21,600
astronomers would tell you that
it's it's random and we're just

324
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:27,280
floating through space
haphazardly, no rhyme, no

325
00:25:27,280 --> 00:25:30,840
reason, just being shot out into
the dark.

326
00:25:31,880 --> 00:25:37,960
And that is not a very
comforting idea to me, right?

327
00:25:37,960 --> 00:25:41,360
That that that tells me that
there's there's no order,

328
00:25:41,560 --> 00:25:45,960
there's no no protection,
anything could happen at any

329
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:49,080
moment.
There's no stability, no

330
00:25:49,080 --> 00:25:52,840
structure out there whatsoever.
And that's not the case.

331
00:25:52,840 --> 00:25:57,960
The Urantia book makes it very
clear that this is a divinely

332
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:04,040
ordered, well structured
universe.

333
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:10,000
And we are floating along
exactly as we're supposed to on

334
00:26:10,280 --> 00:26:17,480
a preordained course.
There is a divine administration

335
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,440
over us.
Everything is perfectly fine,

336
00:26:21,560 --> 00:26:23,160
right?
We've never been struck by an

337
00:26:23,160 --> 00:26:27,000
asteroid.
The chances of that happening

338
00:26:27,000 --> 00:26:30,760
are next to nothing.
All of these fears that we have

339
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:36,880
that come from our teachings
about US cosmology and

340
00:26:36,880 --> 00:26:46,200
astronomy, they're based on
these false ideas that, you

341
00:26:46,200 --> 00:26:51,000
know, the the Urantia book
really clears up and makes

342
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:54,760
perfect sense of.
So I would agree with what she's

343
00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:57,360
saying is Long story short, what
I'm trying to.

344
00:26:57,680 --> 00:27:00,720
Yeah, there's a great comic out
right now.

345
00:27:00,720 --> 00:27:03,560
He's kind of popular.
His name is Peter Holmes and

346
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:08,320
much of his stick or whatever is
based on, you know, this idea

347
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:11,040
that there are people who who
believe in nothing.

348
00:27:11,560 --> 00:27:13,680
And so he he would present to
somebody.

349
00:27:13,680 --> 00:27:17,000
So you believe in that nothing
created you and then when you

350
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:18,720
die, you go back to your
creator.

351
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:23,760
It's fairly clever.
It's a it's a good.

352
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:27,600
It's, you know, either in this
sort of plays to the point which

353
00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:31,080
is either the universe is an
organized structure or it isn't.

354
00:27:31,520 --> 00:27:35,640
And by all appearances, it seems
to have physical laws that it

355
00:27:35,640 --> 00:27:39,640
follows gravity.
There's, you know, and so again,

356
00:27:40,040 --> 00:27:43,600
tying this into the Urantia book
and your book, it, it makes a

357
00:27:43,600 --> 00:27:46,640
definitive case.
And you'd, you're correct in

358
00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:51,240
going after the objections and
Sadler, Sadler, William Sadler

359
00:27:51,680 --> 00:27:57,800
in his 64 original concepts
essay, he also addresses all the

360
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,440
early criticisms of the Urantia
book.

361
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,240
Well, it's too esoteric.
It's Gnostic.

362
00:28:03,240 --> 00:28:07,240
It, it, it strips us of the
atonement doctrine, which is

363
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,480
anti Christian.
And he debates each one of these

364
00:28:10,480 --> 00:28:15,160
issues in a, in a cogent way.
And so I guess we're in the

365
00:28:15,160 --> 00:28:18,080
process of elimination.
You know, people come up with

366
00:28:18,080 --> 00:28:19,560
objections.
And at the end of the day, it's

367
00:28:19,560 --> 00:28:21,880
like, well, why are you?
You know, one must ask

368
00:28:21,880 --> 00:28:26,120
themselves, why do you push back
against the idea that the

369
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:32,760
universe is an organized place?
What's the fear in believing

370
00:28:32,760 --> 00:28:35,680
that there is a purpose to
everything So.

371
00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:38,720
It's not so much the fear of
that.

372
00:28:38,720 --> 00:28:41,600
It's the it's the atonement
doctrine.

373
00:28:41,600 --> 00:28:46,360
It's the salvation aspect.
It's the fear of what they've

374
00:28:46,360 --> 00:28:51,320
been taught to fear from
generations gone by, right?

375
00:28:51,320 --> 00:28:54,240
Their parents taught them, their
parents taught them, their

376
00:28:54,240 --> 00:28:57,240
parents taught them.
So it must be true that if you

377
00:28:57,240 --> 00:29:01,440
do not believe that, for
example, Christianity that Jesus

378
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,480
Christ died for your sins, then
you're going to hell.

379
00:29:04,480 --> 00:29:08,640
And that's a deep seated fear
that most people, even

380
00:29:09,120 --> 00:29:15,000
intelligent people who logically
understand that that doesn't

381
00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:19,640
make sense, are afraid to let go
of it because it's what's so

382
00:29:19,640 --> 00:29:25,960
deeply rooted in the culture.
So that that's going to take a

383
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:30,280
lot of time to, to overcome,
unfortunately.

384
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:35,760
But think more that the world
becomes interconnected and the

385
00:29:35,760 --> 00:29:40,560
more that people see people of
other faiths and realize that

386
00:29:41,680 --> 00:29:46,280
they're like we are, they love
God, they want to fellowship

387
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,920
with humanity.
There's really no difference

388
00:29:48,920 --> 00:29:50,720
here.
Am I going to say that this

389
00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:54,120
person is going to hell because
they didn't believe that Jesus

390
00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:57,520
Christ died for their sins?
You find this more and more that

391
00:29:57,520 --> 00:30:03,200
people are accepting that it's
not, it's not logical.

392
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:06,800
It doesn't, it's not, it's not a
reasonable conclusion to, to to

393
00:30:06,800 --> 00:30:09,320
make.
And it's it's it's, it's based

394
00:30:09,320 --> 00:30:14,920
in antiquated ideas.
Well, you know, and I know we

395
00:30:14,920 --> 00:30:19,360
both know that and it's
explicitly explained to us that

396
00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:23,000
man has been negotiating with
the gods since the beginning of

397
00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:25,040
religion.
You know, we've been negotiating

398
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:28,040
with the spirits.
And, and the reason I say that

399
00:30:28,040 --> 00:30:32,640
is because we as, as human
beings have a natural proclivity

400
00:30:33,160 --> 00:30:38,440
for wanting to make a deal.
And, you know, whether it's with

401
00:30:38,440 --> 00:30:41,360
the climate gods and the Mayans
in the way that they would

402
00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:44,680
sacrifice, they're making a
deal, you know?

403
00:30:44,920 --> 00:30:49,480
Absolutely, yeah.
And that idea of needing to

404
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:54,560
sacrifice in order to receive
something is what you're talking

405
00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,880
about.
And, and largely the reason that

406
00:30:57,880 --> 00:31:04,080
Paul incorporated this idea into
his version of Christianity so

407
00:31:04,080 --> 00:31:11,200
that it would be acceptable to
the Hebrews who could not accept

408
00:31:12,000 --> 00:31:15,760
that anything could be given
without sacrifice.

409
00:31:15,760 --> 00:31:22,760
It was, it was so heavily a part
of their their culture.

410
00:31:23,320 --> 00:31:27,840
So he he, he incorporated this
idea of Jesus being a perfect

411
00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:35,120
sacrifice so that they could
understand that sacrifices no

412
00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:39,480
longer needed to be made.
He was the one and only

413
00:31:39,880 --> 00:31:44,640
sacrifice that had to be made,
and it worked.

414
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:47,640
I mean, we are.
The book makes it clear that we

415
00:31:47,640 --> 00:31:51,600
are indebted to Paul for the
spread of Jesus's teachings.

416
00:31:53,280 --> 00:31:55,880
And so we we have to tip our
hats to him.

417
00:31:55,880 --> 00:32:02,320
But he did take a number of
liberties that we're now trying

418
00:32:02,320 --> 00:32:08,360
to undo with difficulty.
Yeah, it's also interesting that

419
00:32:08,360 --> 00:32:13,120
in my experience is many people
who actually refuse to believe

420
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,640
in Christianity or the tenets of
Christianity is for that very

421
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:20,400
reason, which is they don't like
this idea that only people who

422
00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:25,160
know Jesus, you know, are, are
are receive salvation.

423
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:27,200
They, they get offended like,
well, what about people who

424
00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:29,920
don't live in Africa?
They'd never, you know, do they?

425
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:32,240
They don't get to go.
So that argument for them

426
00:32:32,240 --> 00:32:35,360
actually makes them not like
Christianity because it's, it

427
00:32:35,360 --> 00:32:38,720
has the appearance of being so
inclusive, like it's a, it's a

428
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,640
litmus test that you have to
believe.

429
00:32:40,840 --> 00:32:44,440
And I and I think as my early
Christian upbringing upbringing,

430
00:32:44,920 --> 00:32:49,600
one of the things that I learned
quickly as a Urantia book reader

431
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:53,680
was that Christians had a
natural antagonism towards the

432
00:32:53,680 --> 00:32:56,920
book, Not so much for the
atonement doctrine, but because

433
00:32:56,920 --> 00:33:00,840
of the statement in Revelation
where it says that no book shall

434
00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,920
come after, you know, they
really position themselves in a,

435
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:08,120
in a clever way, you know, and
it brilliant.

436
00:33:08,200 --> 00:33:13,080
Yeah, absolutely.
They had a monopoly on religion

437
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:16,640
and they didn't even let their
congregation read the Bible.

438
00:33:16,640 --> 00:33:19,680
They they kept them illiterate.
They kept the book in one

439
00:33:19,680 --> 00:33:22,800
language so that only they could
interpret it.

440
00:33:22,800 --> 00:33:25,760
And I mean, and, and to this
day, they they do the same

441
00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:27,880
thing.
They, they don't encourage their

442
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:30,760
parishioners to, to, to read the
Bible.

443
00:33:30,760 --> 00:33:33,360
They give them a catechism and
say, these are the questions you

444
00:33:33,360 --> 00:33:35,040
need to answer.
That's all you need to know.

445
00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,360
I mean, it's, it's really sad.
It's a lot of, it's a lot of

446
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,120
baggage that doesn't need to be
there.

447
00:33:40,600 --> 00:33:44,600
It doesn't mean that they aren't
going that to find God through

448
00:33:44,600 --> 00:33:48,800
this relate, this relationship
that the Catholics offer.

449
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:53,320
It's just, it's so unfortunate
to me that they have to carry

450
00:33:53,320 --> 00:33:56,760
this extra baggage along with
it.

451
00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,240
Well, there's so much more of
the story.

452
00:33:59,440 --> 00:34:06,680
That's you know, like you and
you are a when you found the

453
00:34:06,680 --> 00:34:10,400
Oranga book 2 questions 1 is
when did you at what point and

454
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,920
when you were reading it, what
was there a specific paper where

455
00:34:13,920 --> 00:34:18,400
you threw in my favorite phrase,
the intellectual towel and said

456
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,239
I I believe this is the
revelation it says it is.

457
00:34:21,480 --> 00:34:24,320
When was that moment?
And also, did did it help you

458
00:34:24,320 --> 00:34:30,199
come back to appreciate your
Christian upbringing by reading

459
00:34:30,199 --> 00:34:35,600
the Arantia book?
So to answer the first part of

460
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:40,199
the question, when did I throw
in the intellectual towel?

461
00:34:40,199 --> 00:34:44,920
It was a gradual process.
I can't remember an exact moment

462
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:50,199
where I just said I surrender.
It must be true.

463
00:34:50,840 --> 00:34:56,719
But I do remember that that
process of of gradually

464
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:02,600
surrendering my skepticism
because when I first borrowed it

465
00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:07,760
from the guy in my dorm who
initially asked me about it, he

466
00:35:07,760 --> 00:35:09,720
was like most people.
He just kind of picked and

467
00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:13,400
choose what he wanted to read
and he didn't really read the

468
00:35:13,400 --> 00:35:16,520
whole thing.
He just saw some interesting

469
00:35:16,520 --> 00:35:20,160
topic in the table of contents
and sought those out and read

470
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:22,200
those and he wanted to know my
perspective.

471
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:24,480
So that was what I initially
read.

472
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:27,960
And I think that they were like
the Lucifer story was what was

473
00:35:27,960 --> 00:35:31,640
interesting to him and the the
Adam and Eve story, some of the

474
00:35:31,640 --> 00:35:34,240
original Bible stories, right?
The original Christian Bible

475
00:35:34,240 --> 00:35:36,960
stories better explained in the
answer book.

476
00:35:36,960 --> 00:35:40,160
So those are the first things
that I read, but out of context,

477
00:35:40,160 --> 00:35:44,600
there's a lot of information in
there that is addressed earlier

478
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,680
in the book that you don't
really understand.

479
00:35:49,600 --> 00:35:53,720
If you just jump into those
papers, you can, you can still

480
00:35:53,720 --> 00:35:58,040
get, you know, the, the, the
majority of, of what they're

481
00:35:58,080 --> 00:36:02,920
what they're saying, but it is
going to sound kind of crazy

482
00:36:02,920 --> 00:36:05,720
because you don't have that
context of all of these

483
00:36:05,720 --> 00:36:08,000
different personalities that
they're referring to.

484
00:36:08,240 --> 00:36:11,600
And you don't get that
introduction that really builds

485
00:36:11,600 --> 00:36:13,920
up and makes sense of what
you're reading.

486
00:36:14,840 --> 00:36:21,760
So while I thought that the
story was again, very well

487
00:36:21,760 --> 00:36:28,400
written and very detailed and a
very unique perspective on these

488
00:36:28,400 --> 00:36:36,600
events, it wasn't at that point
where I surrendered my my

489
00:36:36,720 --> 00:36:44,240
original Christian beliefs.
As I as I decided to actually go

490
00:36:44,240 --> 00:36:48,480
through the book.
Once I stopped picking and

491
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:50,720
choosing and said, OK, I just
need to read the book.

492
00:36:51,720 --> 00:36:56,440
And I started in book 4 to, to
learn about the life of Jesus.

493
00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:02,800
It wasn't long after that where
I just, like I said it, it, it

494
00:37:02,800 --> 00:37:06,600
made too much sense.
It was too perfect.

495
00:37:09,480 --> 00:37:13,800
It had a perfect explanation.
Every question that I ever had

496
00:37:14,240 --> 00:37:18,640
from reading the New Testament,
and there are a plethora of

497
00:37:18,640 --> 00:37:24,200
them, every one of them is
answered in the Urantia book.

498
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:32,040
I no longer have any questions
that the that the Bible the the

499
00:37:32,040 --> 00:37:35,400
Christian Bible caused me to
ask.

500
00:37:35,400 --> 00:37:44,800
I have only answers,
explanations for what these

501
00:37:44,960 --> 00:37:50,720
human authors were writing and
what they were trying to say,

502
00:37:52,280 --> 00:37:56,600
how they misremembered some
things, how these texts were,

503
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:02,160
you know, lost.
I have a lot more.

504
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,040
I have a greater appreciation
for Abraham.

505
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,440
I have a greater appreciation
for Moses.

506
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:09,920
Absolutely.
Oh, yeah.

507
00:38:10,160 --> 00:38:12,880
Those are the, those are the
stories that really came to life

508
00:38:12,880 --> 00:38:16,760
for me because growing up, you
know, and that, that I think is

509
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:20,600
undeserved.
I mean, it's unappreciated that,

510
00:38:20,600 --> 00:38:25,640
that people, there's a, a, a
retinue of wonderful stories

511
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:30,320
that we all grew up on that that
are so vague and they fill in so

512
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:32,600
many missing pieces.
It's quite satisfying.

513
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:37,080
It it's very satisfying,
especially the story of Adam.

514
00:38:37,120 --> 00:38:44,320
I mean, not Adam Abraham, like
you said, who is not the, the,

515
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:52,120
the, the, the passive patriarch
that we kind of envisioned him

516
00:38:52,120 --> 00:38:55,200
to be.
He was a warlord, right?

517
00:38:55,200 --> 00:39:00,760
Like he was a general.
He was, he was stiff and, and

518
00:39:00,760 --> 00:39:06,040
all of these people that
Melchizedek was instructing

519
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:11,120
were, were hard men living in a
very hard time.

520
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:22,640
And Abraham was the one who
adopted the teachings the most

521
00:39:22,640 --> 00:39:28,360
efficiently, effectively, and
that's the only reason that they

522
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:32,840
became the chosen people,
because they adopted this

523
00:39:33,280 --> 00:39:42,280
monotheistic teaching that the
best of all the religions that

524
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:45,240
came from these, that the Salem
teacher.

525
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,960
Yeah.
But as you read the history of

526
00:39:50,960 --> 00:39:54,720
the Jews in the Urantia book, I
personally lost an enormous

527
00:39:54,720 --> 00:39:58,400
amount of respect for them
because I've been taught my

528
00:39:58,400 --> 00:40:02,440
whole life they were, they were
God's chosen people.

529
00:40:03,040 --> 00:40:07,360
And come to find out they they
only wrote these things while

530
00:40:07,360 --> 00:40:11,440
they were in captivity so that
they could create this persona

531
00:40:11,440 --> 00:40:13,480
and this perception in the the
world.

532
00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:19,320
Of their superior genetic
strain.

533
00:40:19,320 --> 00:40:22,360
They're they're God's chosen
people, right?

534
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,440
And so don't touch them.
Well the paper is all just

535
00:40:25,440 --> 00:40:28,160
clarifies it and I'm trying to
remember the title, but it's

536
00:40:28,160 --> 00:40:32,360
called the the the word profane
is used.

537
00:40:32,360 --> 00:40:36,040
It's the subject of the profane
history and sacred history, I

538
00:40:36,040 --> 00:40:38,640
think.
And, and it goes through that

539
00:40:38,640 --> 00:40:41,960
whole process of how the Bible
and the stories of, of the Old

540
00:40:41,960 --> 00:40:45,480
Testament were assembled and how
they couldn't get back to Adam.

541
00:40:45,640 --> 00:40:47,840
They couldn't find the lineage.
So they just came up with a

542
00:40:47,840 --> 00:40:50,960
story of a flood.
And it's sort of, you know, and

543
00:40:50,960 --> 00:40:54,040
I see what you mean about how
they turned every little thing

544
00:40:54,040 --> 00:40:57,960
into, you know, this sacred,
profound divine birth and all

545
00:40:57,960 --> 00:40:59,800
this, you know, and it and it
does.

546
00:41:00,240 --> 00:41:04,360
I think the Urantia book does a
great job at sort of clarifying

547
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:08,400
how we mystify even the the the
Star of David is explained,

548
00:41:08,400 --> 00:41:12,000
which to me is one of the
strongest cases for the Urantia

549
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:16,640
book because picking those three
dates later out, no one knew

550
00:41:16,640 --> 00:41:19,520
what those three dates if they
were actually accurate and they

551
00:41:19,520 --> 00:41:22,240
turned out to be astronomically
accurate.

552
00:41:22,720 --> 00:41:25,760
And to me, that is probably one
of the biggest cases for the

553
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:30,240
Urantia books accuracy.
You also agree you believe that

554
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:36,240
much of the science in the book
is is in error or a great

555
00:41:36,240 --> 00:41:38,880
degree.
I tend to I took a little bit of

556
00:41:38,880 --> 00:41:42,520
a disagreement with you on that
because I think some things that

557
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:45,760
maybe we think we're wrong about
the Urantia book.

558
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:49,920
Actually, if you read it another
way, it's sort of isn't quite as

559
00:41:49,920 --> 00:41:52,560
wrong as you think it is because
of the way.

560
00:41:52,560 --> 00:41:53,680
Maybe not.
You know.

561
00:41:54,320 --> 00:42:00,120
But I do explicitly say that
this information is based on

562
00:42:00,120 --> 00:42:03,040
what you understand at this
current time.

563
00:42:03,040 --> 00:42:07,600
And we can already foresee that
as your technology develops,

564
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:12,680
this information that we are
presenting to you is going to be

565
00:42:12,680 --> 00:42:17,760
outdated.
But we cannot reveal this type

566
00:42:17,760 --> 00:42:22,000
of information to you.
Human wisdom in this respect has

567
00:42:22,000 --> 00:42:24,960
to evolve on its own.
So all they're doing is

568
00:42:24,960 --> 00:42:29,200
clarifying and making sense as
best as they can of the

569
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:35,280
information that is already
available in 1933 or 35.

570
00:42:35,280 --> 00:42:40,440
What was it, 3430?
53430. 5 So I, I think that

571
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:43,880
you're right, there is some
stuff that will become more

572
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:50,160
understood and, and it will
validate it, but it, they make

573
00:42:50,160 --> 00:42:54,520
the claim themselves that this
information is inaccurate.

574
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,000
And I think that's a huge
argument for the books

575
00:42:57,000 --> 00:43:00,960
authenticity itself.
Because if it is a hoax, why are

576
00:43:00,960 --> 00:43:03,840
you going to stop there?
Why would the buck stop right

577
00:43:03,840 --> 00:43:07,880
there with the scientific stuff?
And, and why wouldn't you just

578
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:12,280
keep going with your, your
charade and make up more stuff

579
00:43:12,280 --> 00:43:16,280
for that, right.
So the fact that they're so

580
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:23,080
genuine, so forthright about
their intentions, about what

581
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:27,320
they're writing about their
perspectives, and it's just,

582
00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:31,320
there's no ulterior motive,
right?

583
00:43:31,320 --> 00:43:34,960
They're not saying, look how
great I am.

584
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:38,160
Look what I have achieved.
Look what I have written.

585
00:43:39,440 --> 00:43:47,040
It's, it's just a, it's just a
straightforward trying, telling

586
00:43:47,040 --> 00:43:50,040
sometimes a hard truth.
There's a lot of hard truth in

587
00:43:50,040 --> 00:43:54,200
the book that isn't politically
correct by today's standards,

588
00:43:54,200 --> 00:43:58,280
obviously.
But whether or not it agrees

589
00:43:58,280 --> 00:44:07,080
with our political beliefs, it,
it, it's, it's just, it lays it

590
00:44:07,080 --> 00:44:13,080
out straightforward for us to,
to, to take it and to try to

591
00:44:13,080 --> 00:44:18,080
understand who we are as a
people and where we're headed.

592
00:44:19,360 --> 00:44:21,960
And that's why I've written so
many other books that are, you

593
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:25,640
know, like one world government,
because they make it very clear

594
00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:30,760
that eventually this is the
direction that you will head in.

595
00:44:32,160 --> 00:44:36,000
It's, it's the natural
progression of civilization that

596
00:44:36,000 --> 00:44:39,560
you gather in larger and larger
numbers.

597
00:44:39,600 --> 00:44:42,680
You know, you start out in
tribes and then you go to cities

598
00:44:42,680 --> 00:44:44,960
and States and then you form
nations.

599
00:44:44,960 --> 00:44:50,200
And eventually you're going to
do it one more time and you will

600
00:44:50,200 --> 00:44:53,880
have a world government.
And you'll never know true World

601
00:44:53,880 --> 00:45:01,680
Peace until you unify in this
way, until you, your individual

602
00:45:01,680 --> 00:45:04,320
nations, surrender their rights
to make war.

603
00:45:05,880 --> 00:45:10,600
And we have examples in our own
history, the United States

604
00:45:10,600 --> 00:45:14,440
history, the UK history, the EU
history of of how this has

605
00:45:14,440 --> 00:45:18,720
happened.
The the UN book itself points to

606
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:23,040
the United States Federation as
an example of how this would

607
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:28,040
work on a smaller scale and.
They also make the point that it

608
00:45:28,040 --> 00:45:32,480
would be a government based on
godly principles, making the

609
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:36,960
point that a government without
God could no, can no longer hold

610
00:45:37,320 --> 00:45:40,840
a people than than a solar
system without gravity.

611
00:45:41,280 --> 00:45:43,440
And I and I think that's an
important distinction because

612
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,320
there are a lot of people who
would fear the idea of a one

613
00:45:46,320 --> 00:45:49,840
world government and they might
get the wrong idea from the

614
00:45:49,840 --> 00:45:52,000
Urantia book that it's pushing
for a one word.

615
00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:53,760
It's not.
It's saying that it's the

616
00:45:53,760 --> 00:45:57,520
natural order that eventually
someday we will become a

617
00:45:57,520 --> 00:46:00,280
peaceful race.
Otherwise we won't get to that

618
00:46:00,280 --> 00:46:03,720
next stage of towards the the
year of light and life.

619
00:46:04,360 --> 00:46:06,240
And so it makes that
distinction.

620
00:46:06,240 --> 00:46:11,040
Yeah.
So the the the problem that I

621
00:46:11,040 --> 00:46:16,240
encounter most readily when I
bring up the subject of a one

622
00:46:16,240 --> 00:46:19,640
world government or A1 world
religion, it's always Christian.

623
00:46:19,640 --> 00:46:24,720
It's Christian eschatology and
the end time prophecy of an

624
00:46:24,720 --> 00:46:30,160
Antichrist who is supposed to
rise up and establish a world

625
00:46:30,160 --> 00:46:34,840
government and a, you know, a
religion and establish World

626
00:46:34,840 --> 00:46:39,360
Peace only to betray everyone.
And so this, this is the biggest

627
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:43,640
push back that I have received
from my work.

628
00:46:45,720 --> 00:46:48,680
And it's, it's, it's a hurdle.
It's a big one, actually.

629
00:46:48,880 --> 00:46:54,280
But I think luckily the if I say
luckily, I don't know if that's

630
00:46:54,280 --> 00:47:00,560
the right word, but our culture
is moving away from Orthodox

631
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:05,000
Christianity.
You know, organized religion as

632
00:47:05,000 --> 00:47:12,920
a whole is, you know, falling.
Every day they need a they need

633
00:47:12,920 --> 00:47:15,560
the life of teachings of Jesus
is what they need.

634
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:19,320
They need to look to the master
first hand and, and actually

635
00:47:19,320 --> 00:47:23,880
look what he said and why he
said it in the context, in the

636
00:47:23,880 --> 00:47:29,640
greater context of what the
Urantia book provides as a, a

637
00:47:29,680 --> 00:47:34,000
theater, if you will, as is in
as Meredith said, and I quote

638
00:47:34,000 --> 00:47:36,440
them often because I was
fortunate enough to have

639
00:47:36,520 --> 00:47:38,880
numerous conversations with with
him.

640
00:47:38,880 --> 00:47:41,600
He was an early pioneer, for
those who don't know, and he

641
00:47:41,600 --> 00:47:45,360
wrote the unabridged tarantula
papers, which talk about a labor

642
00:47:45,360 --> 00:47:48,880
of love.
But you know, the distinction of

643
00:47:49,040 --> 00:47:52,840
what he says is if it isn't like
this, what else could it be?

644
00:47:53,480 --> 00:47:58,360
Please offer me a better
scenario for the universe, the

645
00:47:58,400 --> 00:48:01,840
afterlife, the please, if you
can come up with something

646
00:48:01,840 --> 00:48:05,000
better, I'd love to hear it.
And then, and I find that

647
00:48:05,000 --> 00:48:07,520
message very encouraging.
And I would say that to any

648
00:48:07,520 --> 00:48:11,520
preacher, say, read the Urantia
book and come to me and and and

649
00:48:11,520 --> 00:48:14,880
ask me if there's a better
explanation for angels or for

650
00:48:14,880 --> 00:48:18,760
translations or being
resurrected on the seven mansion

651
00:48:18,760 --> 00:48:20,440
worlds.
Please, I I'm begging you,

652
00:48:20,440 --> 00:48:22,480
please come up with a better
explanation.

653
00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:26,520
And yeah, yeah.
So tell me.

654
00:48:26,520 --> 00:48:28,800
We've got a few minutes.
Go ahead.

655
00:48:28,800 --> 00:48:30,360
I'm sorry.
Please.

656
00:48:30,360 --> 00:48:34,320
I was just saying it's that
level of complexity that is so

657
00:48:35,040 --> 00:48:37,920
convincing.
The, the way that it's

658
00:48:37,920 --> 00:48:42,720
seamlessly integrates all these
different fields of study,

659
00:48:44,520 --> 00:48:50,400
angels, philosophy, science,
religion, it, it just, it, it's,

660
00:48:50,440 --> 00:48:54,960
it integrates everything so
harmoniously and so

661
00:48:54,960 --> 00:49:04,160
comprehensively and it can't be
compared to anything in print or

662
00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:10,200
in existence.
That's what is so that's that's

663
00:49:10,200 --> 00:49:14,600
the the greatest argument that I
have for the genuineness of the

664
00:49:14,600 --> 00:49:15,560
book.
Yeah.

665
00:49:16,080 --> 00:49:18,800
Well, listen, Ryan, I know you
have other books that you've

666
00:49:18,800 --> 00:49:20,880
written.
You also have a great website

667
00:49:21,320 --> 00:49:24,160
which is sort of the gathering
place where you can find some of

668
00:49:24,160 --> 00:49:25,880
these other wonderful books that
you've written.

669
00:49:26,280 --> 00:49:29,880
It it's the the 5th Revelation
or the epical.

670
00:49:29,920 --> 00:49:32,400
What's your website address?
I had it up here on the screen,

671
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:36,520
then my screen went away.
It's all one word, the 5th

672
00:49:36,520 --> 00:49:43,080
revelation.com spelled out.
The 5th revelation.com and your

673
00:49:43,080 --> 00:49:46,120
other books written about truth,
beauty and goodness.

674
00:49:46,120 --> 00:49:48,320
Of course, the the Jesus have
you have you?

675
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:53,080
Are you working on any media
like you're going to go on Ted

676
00:49:53,080 --> 00:49:56,840
TV or what are you doing?
What what what would you like to

677
00:49:56,840 --> 00:49:58,680
accomplish?
What's your next accomplishment

678
00:49:58,680 --> 00:50:02,400
here?
Well, I have applied for some

679
00:50:02,760 --> 00:50:07,080
grants from the the foundation
in order to go on a speaking

680
00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:11,120
tour to market and promote these
works.

681
00:50:11,120 --> 00:50:13,920
And one that is not published
yet.

682
00:50:14,920 --> 00:50:20,360
It's another book based on the
idea of a world government

683
00:50:22,240 --> 00:50:27,560
making a stronger argument of
what we've already talked about.

684
00:50:27,560 --> 00:50:31,240
How it's just the natural
progression of human

685
00:50:31,240 --> 00:50:35,000
civilization and world
government is inevitable.

686
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:39,800
And basically we have a choice.
World government is going to

687
00:50:39,800 --> 00:50:45,080
happen inevitably, but the
choice that we have is will we

688
00:50:45,080 --> 00:50:50,320
establish that world government
before the next global conflicts

689
00:50:50,360 --> 00:50:54,240
or in the aftermath, right?
So I'm trying to make the case

690
00:50:54,240 --> 00:50:56,360
that this is going to happen one
way or the other.

691
00:50:56,360 --> 00:51:02,720
Do we want to blow ourselves up
and have a near suicidal global

692
00:51:02,720 --> 00:51:08,560
conflict one more time before we
realize it and we throw down our

693
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:10,760
arms and establish this
government?

694
00:51:10,760 --> 00:51:13,760
Or do we want to go ahead and
blow ourselves to Kingdom come

695
00:51:13,800 --> 00:51:16,080
and then do it afterwards?
Because it's going to happen one

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00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,880
way or the other.
And so I basically just leave

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00:51:20,880 --> 00:51:24,920
that choice out there.
And I, and I know that that's a

698
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,000
message that's going to resonate
with the masses.

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00:51:28,000 --> 00:51:31,160
And that's who I'm trying to
reach are the, the people, the

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00:51:31,160 --> 00:51:32,640
hearts and the minds of the
people.

701
00:51:32,640 --> 00:51:34,760
Because ultimately, that's where
it has to start.

702
00:51:36,160 --> 00:51:39,320
Life makes no sense.
You're on a planet right now.

703
00:51:39,960 --> 00:51:42,280
You think you're in America?
Zoom out.

704
00:51:44,960 --> 00:51:48,480
You're on a space rock floating
in nothingness, infinite

705
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,000
nothingness.
And the infinite nothingness is

706
00:51:51,000 --> 00:51:54,040
expanding.
That means endlessness is

707
00:51:54,040 --> 00:51:56,640
getting bigger.
That makes no sense.

708
00:51:58,960 --> 00:52:01,440
We all just act like it's
normal, like, oh, we're

709
00:52:01,440 --> 00:52:06,080
everything's made of molecules.
OK, got it.

710
00:52:06,800 --> 00:52:08,680
I'll never think about that
again.

711
00:52:10,080 --> 00:52:12,120
I'm made of molecules.
You're made of molecules.

712
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:14,080
The air between us, it's all
made of molecules.

713
00:52:14,200 --> 00:52:16,840
That makes no sense.
These molecules know their

714
00:52:16,840 --> 00:52:19,560
molecules.
These molecules are like, I'm

715
00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:21,560
Pete.
That doesn't make any sense.

716
00:52:23,480 --> 00:52:27,680
This stool is made of molecules,
the same molecules in my hand.

717
00:52:27,680 --> 00:52:31,080
In fact, some of the molecules
in the stool went into me while

718
00:52:31,080 --> 00:52:33,880
I've been talking, and some that
were me have gone into this

719
00:52:33,880 --> 00:52:36,040
stool.
And you know, when I knock these

720
00:52:36,040 --> 00:52:39,600
molecules into these molecules,
when we ask science why don't

721
00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,080
they go through each other, you
know what the answer is?

722
00:52:42,640 --> 00:52:44,840
We don't know.
That doesn't make any sense.

723
00:52:46,840 --> 00:52:50,400
And again, thank you to Ryan
McGuire for taking time out of

724
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:54,520
his day to talk about his case
for the Urantia Book and more

725
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,840
great interviews coming up next
week, we'll be talking with

726
00:52:56,840 --> 00:53:01,360
folks who created Urantia Pedia.
And then special guest from the

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00:53:01,520 --> 00:53:04,800
Center for Unity, Gabriel
Reinberg will be joining us in

728
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:07,240
the weeks ahead.
And again, we're always here for

729
00:53:07,240 --> 00:53:10,560
you 24/7 on the Urantia Book
radio stream and of course,

730
00:53:10,560 --> 00:53:13,840
urantiaradio.org.
Until next time, be of great

731
00:53:13,840 --> 00:53:15,680
cheer and we'll talk again soon.