Byron Belitsos - Who Is Our Target Audience?

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So we are back with Byron
Belitsos.

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He has not been on in a little
bit of time, but we've caught up

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to him and he is of course the
author of a couple of wonderful

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books.
I will recommend to you now your

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Evolving Soul, the Cosmic
Spirituality of the Urantia

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Revelation and also his book,
The Adventures of Being Human,

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the lessons on soulful living
from the heart of the Urantia

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Revelation to among many.
And I continue to read his

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Substax.
And I would encourage you also

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the union of souls.
And you've been focusing in on

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the infrastructure of the
Urantia movement.

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And it's something that's been
on my mind for many, many years.

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And I'm constantly frustrated,
as many book readers are, that

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we're not farther along with
people knowing about the

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revelation.
And it's, it's a point of

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consternation really, because
it's like having this incredible

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thing not dazzling to anybody
but you.

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And so starting off with your
Revelation infrastructure, what,

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where do you see the whatever is
defined as the Urantia movement?

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Where do you see that movement
right now?

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Yeah, I think I agree, of course
that things are Yeah, just about

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everybody's disappointed and
it's in a kind of a gridlock

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because I think it's a natural
kind of thing that ever.

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We all disagree about what to
do.

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And so that gets you to
governance and governance is

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supposed to be how you work out
the disagreements and they

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governance is fragmented,
obviously.

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And so you don't have much
agreement.

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So you don't really know what
your plan is.

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You don't have a unified plan.
You have some some things that

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are really decent.
So I think it's in AI wouldn't

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say it's in decline.
I would say it's stagnant in

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answer to your question, there
are breakthroughs here and

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there, little bits, but study
groups still going, they're not,

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you know, they're aging,
obviously.

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So I, I would say if this was my
business, I'd be concerned like

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if I was running it, I'd
probably resign and hire

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somebody else.
No, I actually mean it would be

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somebody who is especially good
at, at outreach and marketing

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and most Eagle is somebody good
at that.

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And I think he did his piece and
he did a lot, he did a lot of

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good.
And but now we need somebody

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else who's got that kind of
outbreach orientation that

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could, could lead the movement
in a in a much more aggressive

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outward orientation as opposed
to inward.

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You know, just we just talk to
each other.

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We don't really talk to the
outside world.

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I I don't think that the world
really thinks that it needs a

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revelation.
Maybe that's part of the

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problem.
How do we make the point that

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the ranch book has something so
unique and that could actually

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be helpful to the rest of the
world?

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I think the way to do it is to
not think in terms of the world

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as such, but to think of a
segments, a target audiences,

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right?
So your, your audience is not

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the world.
And that's, that's unwise.

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And for any, any, any business,
including the Father's business,

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you have, when you're starting
out as something, you have a

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target audience in mind.
It's different than the apostles

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and Jesus because that was a
salvation mission for the whole

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world.
But even they focus, you know,

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on the ordinary people.
They didn't like just walk into

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the into the synagogue.
They did, but they focused on

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regular people who were looking
for salvation.

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So today we who are these
people?

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That's the question.
I mean, I have some ideas, but

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it's clearly not people who are
fundamentalist Christians,

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clearly not committed Muslims.
It's clearly not totally secular

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people.
So, all right, you don't go

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through a process of
elimination.

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What does that leave you with?
You know, you just got to figure

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this like anything else.
I mean, you figure out who your

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target is and then that's called
efficient marketing, that you

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don't market to the whole world.
You just don't do it.

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It's silly.
That's my view.

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I was reading paper 100 not long
ago and it gives a lot of

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instruction as to what what the
problem is with religion in

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today.
And they'll they specifically

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address rather prophetically
that the the ship has sailed.

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We're not going to go backwards
when it would become too

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interconnected.
Society is way more complex than

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it ever has been.
And yet the revelators make it

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very clear that without, without
some kind of faith or religion,

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people aren't going to be
motivated.

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I forget the exact words, but it
is essentially saying without

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religion, all of your efforts
will eventually fail.

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But religion has to be
redefined.

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So the Urantia book, all the
Urantia book does is it It lifts

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the curtain.
But what would you say that the

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Oranga book in in the way that
it brings symmetry to science,

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philosophy and faith, Do you
think that's a valuable

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component to its appeal?
Like what?

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How would we even start to
create a brand?

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What does the brand mean?
It means you know when in

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calling for.
That doesn't mean that I know

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what it would be, but it's what
I'm simply doing in calling for

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branding is to say, let's get
some people together who know

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how to brand a product and ask
them people who've actually done

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it.
And there's, you know, just tons

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of people who are marketing
products, all kinds of things

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that were never heard of before.
And they make them successful

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because they figure out
symbolism and slogans and target

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audience.
So this has a target audience.

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It it's So what would be the
branding that appeals to that

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type of person?
Well, it's a it's probably not

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people who are just high school
graduates.

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Probably not.
I don't think people who are

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just high school graduates are
worried about science and

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religion being harmonized.
They just aren't.

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They have other things on their
mind, you know.

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So were the people, the one
synergy of science, philosophy

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and religion?
Who's thinking about that?

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That's about 4% of the of the
population.

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How do you find this 4%?
There's a gospel that's

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different than the book.
The book is not a gospel.

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The book is a is a encyclopedia
tone.

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The gospel is really for
everybody that is interested in

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Christ.
And so so we really have two

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different things going on here.
1 is the ordinary people who are

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interested in Christ.
That's an audience, but a

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certain type, a certain type a
little bit more educated, a

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little bit more adventurous.
That's different than the

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audience for the book.
If you want to get people

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reading this huge book, that's
not the same audience as the

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people who should be approached
with this updated gospel.

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So I actually envisioned two
different segments, two

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different efforts that be in
relatively separate from one

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another.
So those who are interested and

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motivated in their heart to
teach the gospel of love, they

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don't have to bring the Rancho
book up.

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They they should disclose that
for sure.

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But they don't have to talk
about these arcane topics with

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people because they're just
regular people who are looking

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for, you know, what we used to
call salvation, whatever you

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want to call it.
So that is a different core of

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evangelists, another group or
no, but more intellectual type

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types who want to promote.
It's sort of like being an

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encyclopedia salesman, which I,
I did once.

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I was going door to door selling
Encyclopedia Britannica.

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I wasn't selling the Gospel of
Jesus.

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I was selling a big bunch of
books.

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And you know, there's a certain
way that they sell the, we used

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to sell it.
It was we, you know, we would go

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into more educated communities,
we'd go door to door, literally,

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and these people would buy it
because they were, they had kids

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and they were educated and they
wanted to have it in that sort

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of thing.
So that's, that's, that's,

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that's selling, that's peddling
a book versus selling something,

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a thing of the heart of, of
prayer and worship.

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That's so you see what I'm
saying?

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I'm saying that they're really
should bifurcate that way.

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And and if we don't, then we're
really failing in my view.

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I think that what we need are
teachers.

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This should be the age where,
you know, like when Bill Savile

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would go from city to city and
he would speak before a group or

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I think we need more teachers.
We need people.

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Do you agree?
It's one piece of it is

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teaching.
It's a big piece, but there's

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also ministering, healing.
There's other subdivisions of

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this outreach.
It's just common sense to me.

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And you're if it's religion, you
have to have ministers.

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If it's physics, you have
teachers, they teach physics,

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they don't minister physics.
But here we're talking about

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creating communities.
You have to have some leadership

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ability.
That's what a minister would be

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doing.
You're not just, it's not just

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individuals you're trying to
form community.

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Seems to me, I, I, I advocate
that very strongly that there be

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face to face community.
So a teacher's part of that, but

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it isn't really the leader of a
community.

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That's, I call that a minister.
And so in that regard, I, I

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don't really agree with the
UUI's focus on developing

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teachers.
That's their main focus,

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although they're beginning to
move toward creating ministers.

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But it it is a, a, a, a, an odd
problem in the Urantia movement

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that it seems to feel that
ministering is not what we do.

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That's because we're.
Afraid of it?

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We don't I, I, I get the sense
that essentially Urantia book

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readers, having escaped from the
clutches of whatever they were

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involved with before, don't want
to turn around and and now

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become a part of another
religion.

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That's always something that
we've we've worn with a, a, a

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badge of distinction.
But at the same time, we have a

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bunch of these beliefs that are
are very out of this world.

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Religious.
I foresee a day where we will

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have centers, you know, Urantius
sinners, you know, like, you

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know, like the Christian Science
model where they would just have

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reading rooms.
Would that get the job done?

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Would that help facilitate
awareness of the book?

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Because that's what really what
we're talking about.

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If you are selling a book, yes,
but I'm saying we're selling two

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things.
We're selling two things.

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One is we're we're selling the
idea of an enlightened community

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of people who pray together,
worship together, sing together,

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minister to the, you know, to
the neighborhood.

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That's different than just
having a place where you read a

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book.
And, and the way I see it is,

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is, you know, you mentioned that
we were, we're oldest badge of

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them.
We're not religious.

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That is an error.
That's just an error.

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It's, it's a, it's a bias that
came from Sadler, in particular,

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William Sadler, senior and
junior.

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They were anti clerical for
whatever reason.

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I I don't know why, because the
UB is not the text is not anti

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anti, it's anti tyranny.
Yeah, there's definitely, but

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you know, you don't have to have
a, you have a, a Quaker meaning

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that's not tyrannical.
You have a religious science

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church that's not tyrannical.
Being a Methodist church's

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beautiful place.
I I was brought up in a

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wonderful church, which is a
Greek Orthodox, very mystical

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musical church.
I'm not a refugee from religion

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and a lot of people are not.
But this is this weird bias of

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the ranch movement that has we
got to shake it.

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It just, it's not thought.
It's not thought through very

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well.
It's, it's a, it's a, it's

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nothing but a bias in my
opinion.

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OK, so on that note too, Byron
Politzos in in that particular

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paper 100, it talks about the
need for religion to religion is

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at its best when it's a personal
experience, When it starts to

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become connected to movements or
groups or group activities, it

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secularizes itself and becomes
nothing more than a political

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party.
So how do we navigate that very

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complicated path so that the
Urantia book would be seen as a

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as a refuge for spiritual truth?
Because what I'm hearing is

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you're saying maybe we should
have the Church of Urantia,

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Maybe we should have churches
where people can come and pray

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00:14:49,440 --> 00:14:52,000
and have a minister just like
the other churches.

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00:14:52,760 --> 00:14:57,200
I, I am saying something like
that, but, but it's, it's, it's

229
00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,160
an enlightened version of what
we had before.

230
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:05,080
It's not going to be with a Pope
who is, is a tyrant.

231
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,800
It's going to be something
that's been already known in

232
00:15:09,840 --> 00:15:15,120
Christianity since the 16th
century already.

233
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:19,080
They already had this rebellion
against religion and in the

234
00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:23,320
Reformation, and the Reformation
said, yeah, this is a tyrannical

235
00:15:23,320 --> 00:15:26,520
church.
We're going to just be free of

236
00:15:26,520 --> 00:15:30,160
that and we're going to create
congregations without a

237
00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,120
hierarchy.
And they fanned out throughout

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00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:35,120
Europe.
Then they came over to the

239
00:15:35,120 --> 00:15:41,120
United States, you know, and the
Quakers settled Pennsylvania.

240
00:15:41,680 --> 00:15:46,360
Quakers were non hierarchical.
We have a tradition of 400 years

241
00:15:46,360 --> 00:15:50,320
of non of really true religion
of the sort the ranch book talks

242
00:15:50,320 --> 00:15:53,400
about.
But it's more than that because

243
00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:59,080
let people freely choose and let
the we're not going to have one

244
00:15:59,080 --> 00:16:00,960
your rancher church.
That would be silly and it's

245
00:16:00,960 --> 00:16:04,320
impossible.
You would have a multiple,

246
00:16:04,760 --> 00:16:08,800
multitude of all kinds of
experiments and we can call them

247
00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:10,520
churches.
If you don't like that word

248
00:16:10,520 --> 00:16:14,320
because you had a terrible
experience as a Catholic, then

249
00:16:14,320 --> 00:16:16,320
use a different word.
Use some other word.

250
00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:21,560
So big, big deal.
I mean, you know, we, I don't

251
00:16:21,560 --> 00:16:26,040
know why people are so hung up
on this thing that they think

252
00:16:26,040 --> 00:16:29,720
that they, if they start a
group, that the group is going

253
00:16:29,720 --> 00:16:34,080
to begin to oppress itself.
I don't get it.

254
00:16:34,400 --> 00:16:37,640
What am I missing?
You know, years ago I got into a

255
00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:42,720
conversation with a Urantia book
person at the foundation and I

256
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:45,440
said, why don't we have
billboards up in every city with

257
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:47,400
quotes like we do with the
thought of the day.

258
00:16:47,880 --> 00:16:54,040
And it the, the word urantia has
not been, in my limited

259
00:16:54,040 --> 00:16:58,240
experience with marketing, you
have to have a, a synapse

260
00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:00,880
created for the word urantia in
the human brain.

261
00:17:01,800 --> 00:17:05,119
Otherwise it has no meaning to
the person hearing it because

262
00:17:05,119 --> 00:17:07,680
there's no reference of it.
It's not in our vernacular.

263
00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:11,480
So I can see driving around on
the I-10 in LA and seeing a

264
00:17:11,480 --> 00:17:14,640
billboard that has this
wonderful quote and then a

265
00:17:14,640 --> 00:17:17,599
hyphen with a Urantia book and
then maybe the paper.

266
00:17:18,000 --> 00:17:22,200
Unless I really had a huge
endowment, 10 million up, I

267
00:17:22,200 --> 00:17:26,640
wouldn't do things like that
because you have to saturate.

268
00:17:26,839 --> 00:17:30,240
This is a science of marketing.
It's just common sense too.

269
00:17:30,560 --> 00:17:33,240
People have to see it many, many
times.

270
00:17:33,440 --> 00:17:36,800
But you know, they're they're
marketing departments in

271
00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:39,880
business schools.
You just go and take a course

272
00:17:39,880 --> 00:17:42,320
and and this all known.
It's all well known.

273
00:17:42,600 --> 00:17:46,200
How do you brand something you
you so we don't have to invent

274
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,120
anything with the wheel.
It's already known.

275
00:17:48,120 --> 00:17:51,800
You know, it's human psychology,
it's social psychology.

276
00:17:52,240 --> 00:17:58,200
So you but you don't do mass
marketing like that at first.

277
00:17:58,640 --> 00:18:01,360
First you have to hit the target
audience.

278
00:18:01,360 --> 00:18:04,040
That's the best.
Use your money wisely.

279
00:18:04,880 --> 00:18:08,160
When you go big like Pepsi Cola,
yeah, then you, then you have

280
00:18:08,160 --> 00:18:10,440
billboards.
Then you, then you're on the

281
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:12,920
Super Bowl.
If you're here, if you want to

282
00:18:12,920 --> 00:18:17,120
be in a Super Bowl, $20 million.
We don't have 20, but we.

283
00:18:17,240 --> 00:18:21,720
But you build up to that.
And so when you first hit the

284
00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:27,480
more the leadership of society,
they begin to donate, right?

285
00:18:28,320 --> 00:18:33,400
So then you can build up your
funds to do these huge outreach.

286
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:39,440
But in the meantime, you,
everybody who's advanced student

287
00:18:39,440 --> 00:18:47,240
of consciousness and students,
you know, of, of religion of,

288
00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:51,920
you know, visionary, you know,
arts, they should just know what

289
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:53,840
this is.
Doesn't mean they read it.

290
00:18:54,480 --> 00:18:56,080
Oh, yeah.
Well, that's that kind of weird

291
00:18:56,080 --> 00:18:57,200
book.
It's interesting.

292
00:18:57,200 --> 00:18:59,480
I have friends who read it.
I mean, that's all you got to do

293
00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,720
at first.
But I, I, when you get around

294
00:19:02,880 --> 00:19:07,080
Jim, I'm sure like me, you don't
meet anybody who's ever heard of

295
00:19:07,080 --> 00:19:10,920
it in, in the circles that
should have at least heard of

296
00:19:10,960 --> 00:19:12,560
it.
You know, there's a, there's a

297
00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,760
comment in the in the Urantia
book where it talks about had

298
00:19:15,760 --> 00:19:20,520
Jesus's message come along,
maybe a little bit sooner, maybe

299
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:24,640
the Roman Empire would have
survived, maybe with the

300
00:19:24,640 --> 00:19:29,360
infusion of, of his teachings,
it may have rehabilitated what

301
00:19:29,360 --> 00:19:33,520
was a disintegrating society.
And I think they make that point

302
00:19:33,520 --> 00:19:39,080
in the Urantia book specifically
to say you guys need to get your

303
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:41,120
act together.
We're giving you something

304
00:19:41,120 --> 00:19:43,240
that's going to save your
civilization.

305
00:19:43,640 --> 00:19:47,720
Ignore it at your own peril.
You get that feeling because we

306
00:19:47,720 --> 00:19:55,920
have a way to attract
intelligent people to the gospel

307
00:19:56,560 --> 00:20:01,640
that is an updated version of
the Bible, and then those people

308
00:20:01,640 --> 00:20:05,160
who are the target audience have
not been approached.

309
00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:09,880
And therefore, ordinary,
ordinary folks who are not super

310
00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:15,120
educated, they're turning to the
Bible as they're only, they have

311
00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:18,000
no other option.
You don't have another option

312
00:20:18,240 --> 00:20:21,800
other than becoming a Muslim or
something, or to become a

313
00:20:21,800 --> 00:20:24,840
secular.
So what I'm trying to get across

314
00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,520
over and over is you don't have
to hit the whole popular, you

315
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:32,040
have to hit the influencers of
the population.

316
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:35,880
Put that way, who are they?
Who who are they?

317
00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:37,880
Who are the ones that are
forming public opinion?

318
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,840
I don't know exactly, but that's
your job.

319
00:20:55,830 --> 00:20:57,990
You're putting out high quality
literature.

320
00:20:58,310 --> 00:21:01,630
You're talking about something.
How has that experience been for

321
00:21:01,630 --> 00:21:03,390
you?
Do you see a lot of interest

322
00:21:03,390 --> 00:21:05,630
from your subscribers and your
readers?

323
00:21:05,630 --> 00:21:08,430
Are you disappointed or is it at
a a steady clip?

324
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:13,200
It's, it's only fair right now.
I mean, for example, you know

325
00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:17,440
that by how many likes you get
for a particular post and it's,

326
00:21:17,440 --> 00:21:21,080
it's not very many and by how
many comments you get and it's,

327
00:21:21,080 --> 00:21:22,920
it's not very many, but it's not
too bad.

328
00:21:23,320 --> 00:21:25,960
And it's lively when when people
do comment.

329
00:21:26,360 --> 00:21:29,480
But it's it's typical of, you
know, this directed at the

330
00:21:29,480 --> 00:21:34,000
Rancho MOOC and it's typical of
the movement that is not

331
00:21:34,640 --> 00:21:38,040
fervent.
There are individuals that may

332
00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:41,520
be, but typically it's fairly
asleep.

333
00:21:42,640 --> 00:21:46,840
And so no, it's, you know, this
kind of work is, is.

334
00:21:47,520 --> 00:21:51,840
Is to be fair, they do have the
Mustard Seed initiative, which

335
00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:55,520
is money that's given to to
people like you and others maybe

336
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,360
that are said, hey, if you do
you, do you think that there's

337
00:21:59,360 --> 00:22:02,560
real value in that or is it just
maybe not enough?

338
00:22:02,960 --> 00:22:06,560
I mean anybody could do a a
simple GoFundMe page and say,

339
00:22:06,560 --> 00:22:10,880
look, you send me money and I'll
spend that money buying Facebook

340
00:22:10,880 --> 00:22:15,200
ads and Geo target people who
who tend to like spiritual, you

341
00:22:15,200 --> 00:22:17,920
know, stuff.
Problem solved.

342
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,480
That's the great thing about our
our media today.

343
00:22:20,480 --> 00:22:22,840
Everybody has their own personal
ad agency.

344
00:22:23,520 --> 00:22:27,120
What what is is that good?
I mean, you know, you got to ask

345
00:22:27,120 --> 00:22:29,480
a question, Byron.
I think the most important

346
00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:32,760
question is maybe the reason
that the book isn't popular is

347
00:22:32,760 --> 00:22:35,120
because most people aren't ready
for it.

348
00:22:37,280 --> 00:22:42,480
I, I think that is the view of
the, of the certainly of the

349
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:46,440
Orangia Foundation.
I mean, it's almost explicit

350
00:22:46,520 --> 00:22:49,080
about that that.
And how do we know that?

351
00:22:49,080 --> 00:22:54,760
Especially because they're
sitting on $20 million and

352
00:22:54,760 --> 00:22:58,400
they're spending about, you
know, a tiny percent of that on

353
00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:01,720
average.
You know what I mean?

354
00:23:01,720 --> 00:23:05,360
I mean that that's what that
says is the world isn't ready.

355
00:23:05,360 --> 00:23:08,920
We're going to hold that money
until the world is ready.

356
00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:12,040
And you know, that's not, that's
not irrational, that's rational

357
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,480
if your assumption is the
world's not ready, right?

358
00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:20,520
So that is what we get.
We get a world that doesn't, has

359
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,640
never heard of this because
because they're not, they're not

360
00:23:23,640 --> 00:23:25,840
taking the risk.
But you wouldn't want to take

361
00:23:25,840 --> 00:23:30,080
the risk unless you really study
the more the science of

362
00:23:30,080 --> 00:23:34,560
marketing.
I haven't seen any study like

363
00:23:34,560 --> 00:23:37,000
that.
Maybe they did it privately, I

364
00:23:37,000 --> 00:23:42,040
don't know.
I've never seen any initiative

365
00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:45,760
to say use a consulting company
to come in here and look at this

366
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:49,640
and give us some recommendations
that that's that's how you run

367
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:52,280
businesses.
Every business I've run, I've

368
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:54,320
used consultants who come from
the outside.

369
00:23:54,720 --> 00:23:59,360
So why doesn't this ended up
getting far far afield from your

370
00:23:59,360 --> 00:24:01,720
question?
No, it's exactly where we need

371
00:24:01,720 --> 00:24:04,640
to go with this, because I think
what you're saying is exactly

372
00:24:04,640 --> 00:24:08,040
what I was alluding to earlier
in, in paper 100.

373
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:11,920
We have to be willing to be let
the light shine on what we're

374
00:24:11,920 --> 00:24:15,920
doing and then let the market
determine, you know, best

375
00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:17,960
approach.
You know, they, there is a

376
00:24:18,040 --> 00:24:21,000
statement that says will the
market bear it?

377
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,800
There's no guarantees in life
when someone's being introduced,

378
00:24:24,800 --> 00:24:27,440
whether it's an artist or
whether it's a performer and

379
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:30,440
actor.
Ultimately it's the people who

380
00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:33,880
decide what they want.
But I don't know if the people

381
00:24:33,880 --> 00:24:36,960
have been given that choice with
this book because it's still

382
00:24:37,320 --> 00:24:42,280
primarily obscure.
And I don't see any kind of as

383
00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:45,280
of, for example, today, there's
so many ways you could reach

384
00:24:45,280 --> 00:24:47,120
people who are spiritually
minded.

385
00:24:47,120 --> 00:24:50,600
It wouldn't be hard.
You could sponsor a concert.

386
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,320
You could, you could, you know,
look what you know, Santana's

387
00:24:54,320 --> 00:24:57,600
playing in our town, you know,
love to see Carl Santana.

388
00:24:57,600 --> 00:24:59,200
You know, he's a tarantia book
reader.

389
00:24:59,440 --> 00:25:01,360
Think he'll say something at the
show about it?

390
00:25:01,840 --> 00:25:03,480
No.
But Pato Banten will.

391
00:25:04,280 --> 00:25:08,000
And Pato has done more for the
Tarantia movement than anybody I

392
00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:11,160
could think of.
Right.

393
00:25:11,160 --> 00:25:14,680
Because he, he, he has the
boldness to do that.

394
00:25:14,680 --> 00:25:16,800
And he?
But it shouldn't even be bold.

395
00:25:18,160 --> 00:25:20,280
Right.
And that that's why Santana, for

396
00:25:20,280 --> 00:25:24,080
example, is a bold person.
But but I think, you know, we

397
00:25:24,080 --> 00:25:27,400
know that many celebrities read
it and that's more or less

398
00:25:27,400 --> 00:25:32,120
proven by the work of Michael
Macisaac, who I don't know if

399
00:25:32,120 --> 00:25:34,920
you've interviewed him, but I
hope you do.

400
00:25:36,400 --> 00:25:45,480
He's the definitive expert on a
very famous celebrities that

401
00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:49,280
read the rancher book.
Did you know about this work?

402
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:53,280
I did, I did hear some, I I
didn't name the name, but I,

403
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:54,800
yeah, that's he's coming out
with.

404
00:25:55,720 --> 00:26:00,880
OK, so do tell tell me more.
All sorts of famous people from

405
00:26:00,880 --> 00:26:05,720
the 60s, you know, really out of
the sort of the Haight Ashbury,

406
00:26:06,120 --> 00:26:11,520
you know, from Gary Garcia to
Santana, who got the book in, in

407
00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:15,600
the Haight Ashbury and that
period, he got it there.

408
00:26:15,680 --> 00:26:19,280
And a lot of other people did.
And it's very clear that Jimi

409
00:26:19,280 --> 00:26:25,160
Hendrix and very likely Bob
Dylan, but these people don't.

410
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:29,360
But my point is they're pretty
sure that even Bob Dylan has it.

411
00:26:29,360 --> 00:26:32,960
But what when if Bob Dylan went
public about this, it would get

412
00:26:32,960 --> 00:26:37,160
creamed by who?
Because, well, they would just

413
00:26:37,160 --> 00:26:39,440
say he's going crazy like, you
know, they would.

414
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:41,800
I mean, not that he would care.
I mean, he doesn't have that

415
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:43,200
much to lose.
He's in his 80s.

416
00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:47,040
But but he doesn't have enough
support.

417
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:50,440
There isn't what we what I call
air support, right?

418
00:26:50,920 --> 00:26:54,240
Air support mean, you know, so
you, you, you're on the ground

419
00:26:54,360 --> 00:26:55,800
and you're, you're the first
guy.

420
00:26:56,160 --> 00:26:59,200
Like, Santana came out in a very
mild way and said he's reading a

421
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,600
rancher book, but he could he
could stand up at some concert

422
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,720
and say it like Plato does.
And these people don't do it

423
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:11,160
because it's not branded.
Because again, there's no

424
00:27:11,160 --> 00:27:15,280
associative memory the that's
connected to the word.

425
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:18,240
And that's what has to change is
the Urantia book, you know,

426
00:27:18,240 --> 00:27:23,720
based on your, your thesis, your
ongoing thesis on Substack, I

427
00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,000
came up with, well, let's come
up with five fundamentals.

428
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:29,440
How do we define what the
Urantia book, what's its

429
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:31,120
message?
So let's start there.

430
00:27:31,120 --> 00:27:35,560
What is its message?
And then define it very clearly.

431
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:39,480
Because in any concept, when
you're explaining it to get

432
00:27:39,680 --> 00:27:43,120
donors or sponsors, whatever, if
they don't get what you're

433
00:27:43,120 --> 00:27:46,440
selling within the 1st 15
seconds, they're not going to

434
00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:49,000
get it.
If it's complicated, it's not

435
00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,560
going to pass muster.
And I think that's the issues we

436
00:27:51,560 --> 00:27:55,840
tend to and every person's
attempt that when they write

437
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:57,920
about the book, we all do the
same thing.

438
00:27:57,920 --> 00:28:00,280
We all default to, let's explain
the book.

439
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,680
It's got four parts.
It's 2000 pages, it's 700 pages

440
00:28:04,680 --> 00:28:06,560
of Jesus and the first part
talk.

441
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,000
And then we go down this litany
and by the time you're finished,

442
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:12,120
it's like, I don't want to get
involved in that.

443
00:28:12,120 --> 00:28:15,400
That's too heavy.
So we have to define the

444
00:28:15,400 --> 00:28:17,080
message.
What's the message?

445
00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:18,840
We're not alone.
How about that?

446
00:28:21,000 --> 00:28:25,080
Something like that, that that
so, so let me maybe break this

447
00:28:25,080 --> 00:28:27,960
down in a new way that I haven't
thought of that I want to maybe

448
00:28:27,960 --> 00:28:29,520
approach with you and see what
you think.

449
00:28:29,520 --> 00:28:34,680
Jim, there there was since I was
saying earlier, there's two,

450
00:28:35,120 --> 00:28:40,240
it's two prong.
One is, you know, 1 is to the to

451
00:28:40,240 --> 00:28:43,600
the ordinary person.
It's an update to the gospel.

452
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,520
That's it.
And and that should that effort

453
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:50,880
should be pluralistic.
In other words, let's let let's

454
00:28:50,880 --> 00:28:55,200
allow people to go out and teach
it in different ways.

455
00:28:55,200 --> 00:29:01,960
The gospel, OK, let there be
ministers, prophets, teachers,

456
00:29:02,240 --> 00:29:05,520
let them have their own
interpretation and go out there

457
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,920
and let's fund them to do that.
But there's no slogan that's

458
00:29:09,920 --> 00:29:13,080
that we hold to.
However, there be another group

459
00:29:13,080 --> 00:29:18,080
of people who are bringing the
ranch book as a book to the

460
00:29:18,080 --> 00:29:21,160
world, and there it should be
centralized.

461
00:29:21,160 --> 00:29:26,600
That should be branded by one
organization, not 3

462
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,760
organizations.
Right now we have 3, right?

463
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,800
So if you unite this thing
branded and just get the best

464
00:29:33,800 --> 00:29:37,200
people and agree on a slogan
like We Are Not Alone, that'd be

465
00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:41,280
a pretty cool slogan.
Put that out all over the place

466
00:29:41,320 --> 00:29:45,840
to the target, not ever, not on
the highways yet, but to the

467
00:29:45,840 --> 00:29:49,480
target audience to identify
that, spend time, spend money,

468
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:53,480
figure out who they are, do test
marketing, do beta tests.

469
00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,200
Then you begin to do it.
You roll it out.

470
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:00,040
That, that is, that has to be a
unified effort.

471
00:30:00,040 --> 00:30:03,360
I think it, it didn't.
It's just so, so you see,

472
00:30:03,360 --> 00:30:06,520
there's, there's two different
things going on in my view.

473
00:30:07,160 --> 00:30:10,080
And, and, and that's, that's
like how, you know, as a

474
00:30:10,080 --> 00:30:13,960
businessman, you know how I
think, I mean, I got a limited

475
00:30:13,960 --> 00:30:16,920
amount of money to, to, you
know, books that I published,

476
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,480
they got 10,000 dollar, 20,000
at the most budget for a book.

477
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:25,680
I can't sell it to the whole
world except to sell it.

478
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:32,000
People are used to that topic
and if I don't do that, I fail

479
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:36,000
and that book goes nowhere.
I've seen it many a time.

480
00:30:36,240 --> 00:30:39,200
You know, one thing that you've
done, and I like the Rodin

481
00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:42,640
Institute, because the model of
the Rodin Institute for those

482
00:30:42,640 --> 00:30:46,000
who are familiar with Rodin is,
is he would bring all the

483
00:30:46,000 --> 00:30:49,560
religious smart people together
and then they would all discuss

484
00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,360
openly.
Because I, I think if I'm not

485
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:56,480
mistaken, Rodin was, was smart
enough to understand that you're

486
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:59,720
never going to have unity of
belief or uniformity of belief,

487
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:04,400
but rather unity of believing in
the one God.

488
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:08,360
And that was essential.
Everybody had to lay down their

489
00:31:08,360 --> 00:31:12,160
lesser gods and we all have to
agree that there's one God.

490
00:31:12,160 --> 00:31:15,320
Is that accurate about Rodin?
That was the one thing he had a

491
00:31:15,320 --> 00:31:18,440
caveat.
Really.

492
00:31:18,440 --> 00:31:21,080
He was monotheistic, if that's
what you mean.

493
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:25,320
In other words, monotheism had
to be sort of the at least one

494
00:31:25,320 --> 00:31:29,560
common point of agreement.
Sure, OK.

495
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:34,240
So assuming that, why wouldn't
we sponsor, say, public

496
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:37,520
discourses where you could bring
people a different face together

497
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:41,400
and have them debate, you know,
Islam, for example, could debate

498
00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:44,160
with Christianity?
Or would that be something that

499
00:31:44,160 --> 00:31:47,720
maybe the Urantia Foundation or
some organization?

500
00:31:48,200 --> 00:31:51,600
So the Urantia book or the
organization which attaches

501
00:31:51,600 --> 00:31:55,400
itself to Urantia would then
sponsor these kinds of public

502
00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:57,880
events.
And again, associating the

503
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,200
Urantia Book with spirituality
and whatever we want to

504
00:32:02,200 --> 00:32:05,640
associate it with it.
I'm just again thinking out

505
00:32:05,640 --> 00:32:09,160
loud, Byron, because if we don't
do something, if this thing is

506
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,280
going to just, it's going to go
down the rabbit hole and it'll

507
00:32:12,280 --> 00:32:16,200
sit there for 100 years until
somebody discovers it in another

508
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:20,600
age.
So I'm worried about that, Yeah,

509
00:32:20,600 --> 00:32:23,240
we're all worried about it.
And, and, and, and it with,

510
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:26,560
with, with there's enough people
worried about it that it's,

511
00:32:26,600 --> 00:32:29,600
we're going to get this thing
fixed if we take a little bit of

512
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:32,080
time.
But it, it's got a chicken and

513
00:32:32,080 --> 00:32:36,320
egg problem because if you bring
people together to do some, some

514
00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:38,720
stuff, there's no money to fund
it.

515
00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:42,000
I mean a little bit.
You go to Mustard Seed and get

516
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:46,760
3000.
Who is in charge of that?

517
00:32:46,760 --> 00:32:51,480
I mean, is there an organization
that would, would be, you know,

518
00:32:51,480 --> 00:32:55,040
tasked with just raising money
for the Urantia movement?

519
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:57,880
Do we have a other outside of
the foundation?

520
00:32:57,880 --> 00:33:00,360
Everybody?
Does the fellowship have a like

521
00:33:00,360 --> 00:33:02,080
a fundraising?
They must, right?

522
00:33:02,080 --> 00:33:05,880
Everybody has, they must not
everybody's volunteering all

523
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,360
their whole time, are they?
I'm out.

524
00:33:08,360 --> 00:33:11,120
I'm asking you because I know
you're much more connected than

525
00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,200
the average person.
You know, I mean, they, they,

526
00:33:15,200 --> 00:33:20,760
they have fundraising operation
at the fellowship, but it's very

527
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:23,800
limited.
They don't have like, you know,

528
00:33:23,800 --> 00:33:27,280
when most company, most
nonprofits have a full time

529
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:30,400
person called the development
manager.

530
00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:34,520
They, they raise money and then
they have adjacent to that they

531
00:33:34,520 --> 00:33:39,000
have a marketing guy or woman
and that just to that they have

532
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:42,520
an advertising person, right.
There's three different ways

533
00:33:42,680 --> 00:33:45,320
things you need to be doing.
You need to have a marketing

534
00:33:45,320 --> 00:33:49,520
department with experts in these
areas, branding, advertising,

535
00:33:50,640 --> 00:33:54,200
retailing, you know what I mean?
These are divisions of marketing

536
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:57,200
that even a restaurant has on
practically.

537
00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,160
And so you, you, you should I
run an ad or should I, I don't

538
00:34:02,160 --> 00:34:04,000
know, put on an event in my
restaurant?

539
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,520
I mean, that's what you got to
think about if you're going to

540
00:34:06,520 --> 00:34:10,560
have any, any hope.
And so they they have, they

541
00:34:10,560 --> 00:34:12,639
don't really have that.
I mean, but the, but the

542
00:34:12,639 --> 00:34:17,320
foundation definitely has a
fundraise, fundraisers that's

543
00:34:17,320 --> 00:34:21,840
basically MO and guard, but
they're not professional.

544
00:34:21,840 --> 00:34:24,920
They're good at it, but they're
not professional development.

545
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:28,719
They're also not objective.
They can't be objective because

546
00:34:28,719 --> 00:34:32,000
it's their baby, you know, and
that's the kind of you when

547
00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:34,520
you're, you're so heavily
involved, sometimes you need

548
00:34:34,520 --> 00:34:38,159
that outside perspective to get
a, a fresh point of view or

549
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:41,480
approach.
If you're too close, sometimes

550
00:34:41,480 --> 00:34:43,440
that could, well, we don't want
to do this.

551
00:34:43,440 --> 00:34:47,159
We don't want to do that.
We might upset our current donor

552
00:34:47,159 --> 00:34:50,679
base, you know, whatever it is.
But I think you're right.

553
00:34:50,679 --> 00:34:54,159
I mean, some of the stuff that
people who are listening, I

554
00:34:54,159 --> 00:34:57,360
wanted to have you on because I,
there's a lot of people, there's

555
00:34:57,360 --> 00:35:00,840
3 to 4000 people a month
listening to this podcast.

556
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,000
I don't know where they're at,
but they're there.

557
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:07,120
And I'm trying to fuel that
thought, you know, what do we as

558
00:35:07,120 --> 00:35:12,040
a community do to push this
boulder up the hill?

559
00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:17,200
I have a question here.
I, I wrote these down for you,

560
00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:23,320
Byron, What do you think of the
study group model?

561
00:35:23,320 --> 00:35:26,640
That seems to be something
that's sort of evolved

562
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:29,560
organically.
It's, it's sustained itself,

563
00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:32,080
it's growing.
Do you think that that may be

564
00:35:32,920 --> 00:35:36,680
maybe that in itself will
organically continue?

565
00:35:37,040 --> 00:35:42,040
It seems like a pretty easy
process because every I mean, do

566
00:35:42,040 --> 00:35:45,720
you like study groups as a as a
way of promoting their rancher

567
00:35:45,720 --> 00:35:47,160
book?
What's your thoughts on study

568
00:35:47,160 --> 00:35:49,760
groups?
Well, that was a good idea in

569
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:56,560
the 70s, eighties, 90s, but it
is today.

570
00:35:56,600 --> 00:36:04,400
I think it's secondary because
it is a intellectual activity.

571
00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,960
It is not a prayerful activity.
It is not a bunch of people

572
00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:12,640
singing wonderful hymns.
It isn't a place you can bring

573
00:36:12,640 --> 00:36:15,000
your children.
It isn't a place you can bring

574
00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,440
the elders.
It isn't a place where you can

575
00:36:17,440 --> 00:36:22,360
hold a marriage or a baptism.
It's just a intellectual thing

576
00:36:22,680 --> 00:36:26,080
that is not going to like, you
know, enlighten the planet.

577
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:29,200
Just having a reading a book
isn't going to do so.

578
00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:32,000
I think it was a good way to
disseminate in the beginning,

579
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,200
but it was it was supposed to,
it should be the the main thing

580
00:36:37,200 --> 00:36:41,920
should be communities.
And I don't mean Society of the

581
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:45,960
Urantia societies are nothing
but, you know, leaders from

582
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,800
study groups.
It should be ministry

583
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:51,920
communities.
I know that sounds like

584
00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:56,840
religion, but you know, real
people need healing, they need

585
00:36:57,120 --> 00:36:59,640
teachers, they need preachers,
they need sermons.

586
00:37:00,840 --> 00:37:04,480
I mean, I, I, you and I, we've
been through a lot and I don't

587
00:37:04,480 --> 00:37:06,600
know about you, but I like
hearing a sermon.

588
00:37:07,720 --> 00:37:09,560
I do too.
Yeah.

589
00:37:09,560 --> 00:37:13,040
I find myself listening.
I was listening to one on

590
00:37:13,040 --> 00:37:15,960
SiriusXM, and I caught myself
listening to Billy Graham from

591
00:37:15,960 --> 00:37:19,240
1968 or something.
You know, I was like, wow, I

592
00:37:19,240 --> 00:37:22,040
miss this.
This is inspiring, you're right.

593
00:37:22,040 --> 00:37:23,440
Isn't that great?
Yeah.

594
00:37:23,800 --> 00:37:26,480
I mean, when did you, whenever
did you get a sermon from a

595
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:28,720
urantia?
Anything.

596
00:37:28,920 --> 00:37:33,400
Nothing.
It's like one guy doing it right

597
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,120
now.
It's it's Marvin Garwin.

598
00:37:35,960 --> 00:37:37,480
Oh, is that right, Marvin
Garwin?

599
00:37:37,480 --> 00:37:40,000
Yeah, he's got yeah.
Homecoming, he calls it.

600
00:37:40,000 --> 00:37:43,440
It's a kind of a quasi part of
the fellowship.

601
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:50,520
And Marvin every Sunday holds a
kind of online church.

602
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:55,520
It is called a church and
everybody should know about it

603
00:37:55,520 --> 00:37:59,000
because it's a nice thing.
These he's, he gives a short

604
00:37:59,000 --> 00:38:04,440
sermon and then they have 10
minutes of silent prayer and you

605
00:38:04,440 --> 00:38:08,320
have, you know, 20-30 forty
people online and it's really

606
00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:09,640
cool.
And, and then they have a

607
00:38:09,640 --> 00:38:14,120
discussion time and that, but he
gives a pretty good sermon.

608
00:38:14,520 --> 00:38:17,960
And this is not, he's not
sermonizing about the whole

609
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,600
Urantia book.
He's it's part 4 based, right?

610
00:38:22,120 --> 00:38:24,720
So he's, he's doing what I what
I'm advocating.

611
00:38:24,720 --> 00:38:30,200
He's there should be people
doing ministry, Burmans group

612
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:34,600
worship and the the study groups
are secondary to that.

613
00:38:35,520 --> 00:38:39,400
And they tend to be dominated by
a certain kind of middle-aged

614
00:38:39,920 --> 00:38:42,960
male white.
Now watch out here.

615
00:38:46,160 --> 00:38:49,320
It's true.
Hey listen, if there was a nice

616
00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,440
sounding females teacher
teaching the Urantia book, I'd

617
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:57,440
probably listen to it, yeah.
That'd be better, but.

618
00:38:58,240 --> 00:39:00,040
But.
Yeah, we, we don't, we don't

619
00:39:00,040 --> 00:39:04,640
have sermons, right.
So that's part of this, this, I

620
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:11,480
think unfounded bias against
religion, like group process of

621
00:39:11,480 --> 00:39:14,280
religion and we have to just do
it.

622
00:39:14,280 --> 00:39:19,960
It's just individual.
That is an American bias.

623
00:39:20,560 --> 00:39:25,800
The rest of the world other than
Europe, people meet together in

624
00:39:25,840 --> 00:39:28,040
worship.
I don't care if you're Muslim,

625
00:39:28,040 --> 00:39:32,320
Hindu, that's that's just
natural.

626
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:36,440
I even mentioned, go ahead.
I mean to step on you there.

627
00:39:37,000 --> 00:39:41,200
No, I made the point.
You, you, you attended seminary

628
00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,800
not long ago and, and you
completed the program.

629
00:39:45,120 --> 00:39:47,880
Forgive my ignorance on it, but
I know that you have to study

630
00:39:47,880 --> 00:39:52,200
the Bible.
Did you give much studying to

631
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,760
Revelation, particularly because
the Urantia book does mention

632
00:39:56,520 --> 00:39:59,600
John's Revelation And so there's
there's a bit of intrigue in

633
00:39:59,600 --> 00:40:02,680
that.
That brief mention what what's

634
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,240
your take on Revelation and how
curious are you about some of

635
00:40:06,240 --> 00:40:08,800
the things that it that it
revealed?

636
00:40:09,120 --> 00:40:11,120
And then I have a follow up
question to that.

637
00:40:12,360 --> 00:40:14,920
So you mean the last book of the
Bible, the Book of Revelation?

638
00:40:14,920 --> 00:40:16,520
Yeah.
Yeah.

639
00:40:16,560 --> 00:40:18,480
I think it's pretty, pretty
neat.

640
00:40:18,520 --> 00:40:22,280
I mean, it's archaic.
It's, it's, it's, you know, the

641
00:40:22,280 --> 00:40:26,680
symbolism is out of date and
it's not really taught in

642
00:40:26,680 --> 00:40:28,960
seminaries, you know?
It's not.

643
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:34,240
No, unless it's just some
fundamentalist seminaries would

644
00:40:34,240 --> 00:40:39,200
teach it because they're
millennialist, you know, and

645
00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,960
they, you know, they do read it
for that reason that they're

646
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:44,960
apocalyptical in their view,
which is, you know, the end of

647
00:40:44,960 --> 00:40:48,600
the world's coming and the
prophecy by John in the Book of

648
00:40:48,600 --> 00:40:51,320
Revelation.
But no, it's not it's it's a

649
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:56,120
mess because it's very hard to
interpret and by the.

650
00:40:56,560 --> 00:41:00,040
Thing it's so full of symbolism.
Yeah.

651
00:41:00,040 --> 00:41:03,400
And my follow up question is if
you had studied that particular

652
00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:09,880
paper, there's a passage in in
10 Revelations 10 where John is

653
00:41:09,880 --> 00:41:14,800
is given witness to a high
authority, not necessarily an

654
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,960
Angel, but someone high in
authority.

655
00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,320
It sounds to me like it might be
Melchizedek.

656
00:41:20,560 --> 00:41:25,280
It's in fact it, it sounds to me
as I was reading it, it sounds

657
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:30,240
like that part of Revelations 10
is talking about the appearance

658
00:41:30,240 --> 00:41:36,880
of a magisterial son perhaps and
a hands John a book and it's

659
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,360
referred to in Revelations 10 as
a little book.

660
00:41:39,840 --> 00:41:43,200
It's the one that makes your
mouth sweet but your stomach

661
00:41:43,200 --> 00:41:45,880
bitter.
It's a common kind of I've seen

662
00:41:45,880 --> 00:41:48,720
it commonly used.
Do you think that that any

663
00:41:48,720 --> 00:41:52,760
possibility that what John saw
was the Urantia book?

664
00:41:53,760 --> 00:41:57,920
Because in that same quote it
the the higher authority says

665
00:41:57,920 --> 00:42:01,960
don't don't mention what we just
told you, but they do mention

666
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:03,640
the book.
They call it the little book and

667
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,600
they refer to it twice.
I just wondered if that.

668
00:42:06,600 --> 00:42:08,360
Were I'm going to have to look
that.

669
00:42:08,440 --> 00:42:09,200
Up.
Look that up.

670
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:13,000
Never really no, I've never
really noted that it's you know,

671
00:42:13,000 --> 00:42:16,880
that's that's pretty, pretty
interesting that you spotted

672
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:21,400
that item and maybe it was a
prophecy of future.

673
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:25,080
I mean, there's, there's other
things that, you know, there's a

674
00:42:25,080 --> 00:42:28,360
new and greater revelation, you
know, that's in Mormonism.

675
00:42:28,360 --> 00:42:29,200
Yeah.
Where is that?

676
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:31,120
I've been looking for that quote
for a long time.

677
00:42:31,120 --> 00:42:36,120
I found it that in fact, the one
of the heads of the elders had

678
00:42:36,120 --> 00:42:40,120
mentioned the Urantia book, and
he was quickly escorted out of

679
00:42:40,120 --> 00:42:42,400
the.
You know, this was years ago,

680
00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,440
back in the 70s.
There was a famous elder who had

681
00:42:45,440 --> 00:42:49,960
been trying to tell the people
and in Utah, hey, this Urantia

682
00:42:49,960 --> 00:42:52,760
book thing seems to be kind of
interesting.

683
00:42:53,200 --> 00:42:57,160
And he was, whatever they call
it, delisted or something.

684
00:42:57,480 --> 00:43:01,560
They got him out of there fast.
So there I, I often wondered if

685
00:43:01,560 --> 00:43:04,080
the religious authorities must
know about the Urantia book.

686
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,000
The Pope's all of the they must
know about it, but they're not

687
00:43:08,000 --> 00:43:10,280
saying anything about it.
That's that's.

688
00:43:10,280 --> 00:43:13,240
What's interesting to me, that's
what's interesting.

689
00:43:13,240 --> 00:43:16,200
It's the same with those
celebrities I mentioned earlier,

690
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,280
right?
You know, and that they know

691
00:43:18,280 --> 00:43:24,080
about it because the branding,
it should be not be done.

692
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:27,440
You shouldn't expect the Pope
who knows about, you know, the

693
00:43:27,440 --> 00:43:29,000
least.
Francis almost certainly knew

694
00:43:29,000 --> 00:43:32,080
about it.
You shouldn't expect him to have

695
00:43:32,080 --> 00:43:35,160
to be the guy to say, oh, I know
you haven't heard of this.

696
00:43:35,520 --> 00:43:38,080
I'm going to tell you all about
no, It should already be well

697
00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:41,400
established among influencers
and leaders.

698
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:45,480
Then Bob Dylan could come out
and stay.

699
00:43:45,960 --> 00:43:48,840
But you don't expect Bob Dylan
to give a tutorial on what the

700
00:43:48,840 --> 00:43:53,600
ranch book is, right?
You, you, we should do that.

701
00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,720
We should have done that, and we
did not do that.

702
00:43:57,720 --> 00:44:00,440
So, you know, it's remedial.
All right, we haven't done it,

703
00:44:00,440 --> 00:44:03,040
so let's do it.
You got $20 million sitting

704
00:44:03,040 --> 00:44:04,800
there.
Might be a pretty good use.

705
00:44:04,800 --> 00:44:10,080
So I always spend at least at
least a million on a branding

706
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:13,160
campaign.
If I had 20 million, I would

707
00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:15,720
spend a million.
I'd probably more than that.

708
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:18,560
So you think they're done with
the translations?

709
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:20,200
And I mean, the book now is
everywhere.

710
00:44:21,080 --> 00:44:24,880
How much that was the original
purpose of the foundation was to

711
00:44:24,920 --> 00:44:28,240
the you're in charge of
distribution and dissemination

712
00:44:28,240 --> 00:44:31,320
and translations and that's all
you're supposed to do.

713
00:44:31,320 --> 00:44:34,000
Do you do you buy that, that
that was their job?

714
00:44:34,280 --> 00:44:35,880
Have they outlived their
utility?

715
00:44:37,240 --> 00:44:39,880
They're usefulness.
No, I, I, no, I don't agree.

716
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:43,200
No, there, there originally was
mandated to do more than that,

717
00:44:43,320 --> 00:44:47,320
but that that was just part of
the mandate dissemination

718
00:44:47,320 --> 00:44:49,080
building of thousands of study
groups.

719
00:44:49,560 --> 00:44:52,840
There was other parts.
But in, in, in regard to your

720
00:44:52,840 --> 00:44:56,840
question, you know, the ranch
book, the ranch foundation was

721
00:44:56,840 --> 00:44:58,600
supposed to translations, but
they don't.

722
00:44:59,040 --> 00:45:02,400
That's another one of my sort of
complaints, that they don't do

723
00:45:02,400 --> 00:45:05,720
it the way anyone else in the
world does translations.

724
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:08,840
How do they do it?
It's different.

725
00:45:08,840 --> 00:45:11,800
They, well, they find your
rancher book readers and have

726
00:45:11,800 --> 00:45:14,600
them do it right.
That's not how you do.

727
00:45:14,640 --> 00:45:16,600
That's not how anybody does a
translation.

728
00:45:18,000 --> 00:45:20,280
I'm talking about professionals.
Yeah, OK.

729
00:45:20,320 --> 00:45:23,960
I see what you mean.
I ran a professional publishing

730
00:45:23,960 --> 00:45:27,560
company, a little one, but it
did a lot of books and many of

731
00:45:27,560 --> 00:45:30,240
them were translated.
I didn't.

732
00:45:30,240 --> 00:45:35,120
I didn't go out and find
somebody in Turkey and and say

733
00:45:36,160 --> 00:45:40,040
find somebody, read the book, my
book and well, this the Robert

734
00:45:40,040 --> 00:45:45,200
Sarmast book on no, you, you
hire, you find a publisher in

735
00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:47,200
Turkey.
That's what I did.

736
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:49,960
I have an agent.
We found a publisher that

737
00:45:49,960 --> 00:45:54,160
publishes stuff like this and
they paid for it and they

738
00:45:54,160 --> 00:45:56,840
published it.
But the Rancho Foundation

739
00:45:57,120 --> 00:46:00,080
doesn't really do that.
It doesn't find a local

740
00:46:00,080 --> 00:46:04,480
publisher, it finds local
readers who are not qualified,

741
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:12,920
which is why they have some real
difficulties with this and that.

742
00:46:12,920 --> 00:46:17,280
That's another story for another
time, because that's a big more

743
00:46:17,880 --> 00:46:19,840
more.
But anyway, so yeah, they,

744
00:46:19,920 --> 00:46:22,320
they've done a lot, they've got
a lot of translations.

745
00:46:22,640 --> 00:46:26,800
They're good translations by all
accounts of the main languages.

746
00:46:26,800 --> 00:46:30,960
So in a way they're done with
that and they can move on and do

747
00:46:30,960 --> 00:46:34,040
other things that, you know,
they're beginning to do.

748
00:46:34,040 --> 00:46:35,480
I mean, you know, give them some
credit.

749
00:46:35,480 --> 00:46:38,120
I mean, they're beginning to do,
they do the scientific

750
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,920
symposium.
That's a really cool, that's

751
00:46:39,920 --> 00:46:42,240
really great.
You know, and they're doing the

752
00:46:42,240 --> 00:46:45,120
mustard seed, which is, you
know, like 2% of the total

753
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:49,000
budget is being, you know, you,
you, you given out as grants.

754
00:46:49,720 --> 00:46:53,640
Little, tiny, little tiny thing,
but it's, they weren't doing it

755
00:46:53,640 --> 00:46:56,360
five years ago.
So that there's progress, but

756
00:46:56,360 --> 00:46:59,640
it's very, it's very slow.
Yeah, that's very slow.

757
00:47:00,240 --> 00:47:02,920
All right.
Yeah, go ahead, answer the

758
00:47:02,920 --> 00:47:04,160
question because that's
important.

759
00:47:05,720 --> 00:47:08,640
Yeah, we stated it again.
Oh, now you're going to put me

760
00:47:08,640 --> 00:47:11,640
on the spot.
No, I just just the original

761
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:15,280
question was the study groups.
Has has the foundation outlived

762
00:47:15,280 --> 00:47:18,360
its usefulness or, or, but I
think you've answered it.

763
00:47:18,800 --> 00:47:21,600
They haven't, but they have to
continue on with their their,

764
00:47:21,800 --> 00:47:25,520
their other mission, which is
the training of teachers and

765
00:47:25,520 --> 00:47:28,200
ministers, if I'm correct,
right, and that what the other

766
00:47:28,200 --> 00:47:30,080
mission is.
Yeah.

767
00:47:30,240 --> 00:47:34,720
And they do have the school, the
Ubis school that they run, which

768
00:47:34,720 --> 00:47:37,360
is an online school.
It's just, but it's not

769
00:47:37,360 --> 00:47:39,600
credential.
And that's the problem with it.

770
00:47:39,600 --> 00:47:41,880
I, I love the program and I
promote it all the time.

771
00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:44,640
I think it's wonderful.
It's especially if you're a new

772
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,440
reader, it, it has that
fellowship quality to it.

773
00:47:47,880 --> 00:47:50,600
And you can share with other
people that that to me is good,

774
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,080
but it's not a credentialed
course.

775
00:47:53,440 --> 00:47:57,960
I would feel better if if it was
introduced into universities.

776
00:47:58,880 --> 00:48:01,080
I'm not sure which category it
would fall under.

777
00:48:01,080 --> 00:48:06,240
But certainly, my God, you know,
all the work that Halbert's been

778
00:48:06,240 --> 00:48:11,360
doing, you've been doing others
trying to give validity to this

779
00:48:11,360 --> 00:48:14,080
book and the scientific stuff
that's coming out.

780
00:48:14,480 --> 00:48:18,440
I mean, maybe And you and I had
that argument.

781
00:48:18,440 --> 00:48:23,280
Academia deserves, they should
really with clear eyes look at

782
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:28,320
this book and at least study it
from AI don't know a religious

783
00:48:28,320 --> 00:48:30,600
point of view.
I mean, it's kind of fantastic.

784
00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:34,120
Here we have this book that
reportedly was given to us by

785
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:38,360
celestial beings 100 years ago.
That that's pretty significant.

786
00:48:38,360 --> 00:48:42,480
We haven't had a miracle like
that come along in a while, you

787
00:48:42,480 --> 00:48:45,440
know?
It's the same thing, Jim, in

788
00:48:45,440 --> 00:48:47,280
every category we've talked
about.

789
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:50,560
It's the same problem.
It's a chicken and egg thing.

790
00:48:51,080 --> 00:48:54,600
I'm, I'm kind of part of
academia, A quasi academic

791
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:56,600
person.
I've been with these guys.

792
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,760
I just went to a very academic
seminary.

793
00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:02,840
They don't know what it is.
So there's no way for them to

794
00:49:02,840 --> 00:49:06,040
study it.
There's no grants for that.

795
00:49:06,600 --> 00:49:12,320
There's no outreach to them.
There's no secondary works that

796
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:16,000
they use, just a few that are in
the category academic secondary

797
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:18,840
works.
So there's just no body of work

798
00:49:19,320 --> 00:49:22,800
to to draw from.
In other words, you know, when I

799
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:24,640
was in the seminary, I make it
quick.

800
00:49:25,960 --> 00:49:29,680
You know, my, I have pretty
visionary professor who allowed

801
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:34,840
me to write about the rancher
book in my thesis.

802
00:49:35,560 --> 00:49:41,120
And he thank God, he was an open
minded guy, but he he noted that

803
00:49:41,120 --> 00:49:45,880
you have nothing to quote Byron.
You have, you have to quote that

804
00:49:46,320 --> 00:49:50,880
there's no scholars.
Well, it's just just your core

805
00:49:50,880 --> 00:49:55,320
text, but you have no scholars,
no theologians, no nobody.

806
00:49:55,680 --> 00:49:59,480
That's that's written a study.
So how are you going to do this?

807
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,680
I said, well, we're not the,
the, the, the, the thesis is

808
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:05,600
only going to cover it briefly.
That was the only way I could do

809
00:50:05,600 --> 00:50:11,320
that because that's you can't do
academic study if you don't have

810
00:50:11,600 --> 00:50:14,200
any other studies.
Like saying I have a cure for

811
00:50:14,200 --> 00:50:16,360
cancer but we have no studies to
prove it.

812
00:50:16,480 --> 00:50:21,440
Yeah.
And then, well, it's a common

813
00:50:21,440 --> 00:50:23,160
sense.
I mean, you know, anything in

814
00:50:23,160 --> 00:50:26,640
the world that you want to
launch, you have to have support

815
00:50:26,920 --> 00:50:30,320
from experts.
And we had never really reached

816
00:50:30,320 --> 00:50:35,800
out to these ex people in the
field until, you know, recently

817
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:40,480
I was the one that proposed that
they fund a booth at the largest

818
00:50:40,480 --> 00:50:42,160
academic conference in the
world.

819
00:50:42,840 --> 00:50:44,640
And you know, I think you know
the story, right.

820
00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,520
So I.
Mean it was, it was semi

821
00:50:47,520 --> 00:50:52,040
successful from what you told
me, but it's still a lot of work

822
00:50:52,040 --> 00:50:54,480
to do, yeah.
It's just a lot of work because

823
00:50:54,480 --> 00:50:57,800
again, the branding, the name
recognition is just not there.

824
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:00,480
They walk by the booth.
You can tell you look at their

825
00:51:00,480 --> 00:51:02,280
face of what?
What is this weird thing?

826
00:51:02,280 --> 00:51:05,200
You know, they nothing means
nothing.

827
00:51:05,680 --> 00:51:10,840
There was just a few handful,
half dozen professors do come up

828
00:51:10,840 --> 00:51:12,480
and say, well, my, I've heard of
this.

829
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,280
I had a student that say, you
know, that was it in four days

830
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:23,000
and we did it a second time and
it was even seemingly harder the

831
00:51:23,000 --> 00:51:24,760
second time.
We did it in San Diego in

832
00:51:24,760 --> 00:51:28,120
20/24/24.
Is this almost like thing went

833
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:30,120
backwards?
Well, that's California.

834
00:51:30,120 --> 00:51:32,440
That's the problem there.
It's California, but it's the

835
00:51:32,440 --> 00:51:34,360
same scholars from all over the
world.

836
00:51:34,360 --> 00:51:38,360
But my feeling out of that was,
man, this is not going to be

837
00:51:38,360 --> 00:51:41,280
easy.
You, you, you can't do this

838
00:51:41,280 --> 00:51:45,520
without serious support from the
Ranch Foundation, ranch

839
00:51:45,520 --> 00:51:48,640
Fellowship, serious money
backing.

840
00:51:48,640 --> 00:51:50,600
It's just it's almost
impossible.

841
00:51:53,240 --> 00:51:55,800
It's been good to catch up with
you and I really enjoyed our

842
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:57,800
time more than we thought we
would do.

843
00:51:57,800 --> 00:51:59,400
But I really appreciate it
though.

844
00:51:59,840 --> 00:52:02,800
Thank you very much for doing
this again and reaching out.

845
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,160
I appreciate and thanks for
keeping the show going.

846
00:52:06,160 --> 00:52:09,920
You've gone a long time.
Once again, thank you to Byron

847
00:52:09,920 --> 00:52:13,320
Boletzo joining us on this
edition of the Rancho Radio

848
00:52:13,320 --> 00:52:15,080
Podcast.
We really enjoyed spending time

849
00:52:15,080 --> 00:52:15,520
together.