Byron Belitsos on Integral Theodicy and Why God Allows Evil to Exist

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Welcome to another great episode
of the Rancho Radio podcast.

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I am very excited to have on the
program Byron, boletos who has

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written a great new book, which
I've had the pleasure of

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reading, and it's entitled
truths about evil sin.

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And the Demonic toward an
intrical theodicy, Byron boletos

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joining us.
Don't forget.

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You can always check us out
online.

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Your aunt, your radio dotnet,
and we appreciate you sharing

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these podcast with your friends
and thanks for joining us.

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Byron Millet says is my guest
and he has written a seminal

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book, will talk about called
truths about evil sin, and the

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Demonic Byron has been with us.
Numerous times also wrote your

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evolving Soul, which I highly
recommend it also delves into

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the evil concept original sin.
But today, we're going to talk

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about something called The
Odyssey, which is the ongoing

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philosophical and Theological
debate over God's influence on

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Humanity.
Why evil is allowed to exist at

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all and Questions that
theologians through the ages of

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grappled with.
Why does God allow evil is evil?

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A real construct, all of which
Byron addresses in his latest

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book Byron has also been reading
the ranch of look for decades

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and continues to give lectures
and seminars pertaining to the

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revelations teachings.
And we are honored to have Byron

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on the program in this very
candid interview, five years,

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huh?
Five years, Carla fought about

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five years ago when I decided to
leave the west coast and go to A

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seminary, I was 2018, and I sort
of knew that this would be the

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issue for me to studying
theology, since I just grew up,

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so sensitive to, you know, the
problem of evil.

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So, yeah, it's five years.
So, I started writing little

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papers, little kind of parts of
the book were papers.

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I wrote for classes and and so I
was getting a getting some

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momentum with it in these small
papers and then suddenly it came

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together that, oh, yeah.
The you be Really addresses the

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key issues that theology has
been grappling with in this

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regard and I vaguely.
I mean, I knew that but once you

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read these things, like st.
St.

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Augustine, or Aquinas, or the
modern theologians.

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They're dealing with the same
issues that the Urantia book

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does when it talks about evil
and good.

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So it's not like, you know, the
ranch which is popped out of

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nowhere.
You know, it's in a big con.

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For Sation with this huge
tradition and you take us

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through this history.
It's cuz it did it all come

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together naturally or how long
did it take you to write it and

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then how many times did you
rewrite it?

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Right.
Well, you're cute.

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I had to write a master's thesis
to do so after the second year

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or you write the thesis, so I
took maybe three months to write

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it and was a short version of
this book, The, but it Delia You

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write something like that.
And you think, well, I still

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got, you know, 50 other books I
wanted to read and I still want

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to, you know, drill down on this
issue or that issue, and it's

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just lingered around.
And so, it really, you know,

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people, when I had an opening
was in a kind of a contract job

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with a non-profit one that ran
out, I just took the time to try

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to rewrite everything about Ten
times.

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Yeah so let's dig into that a
little bit.

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So first of all we since you
were so eloquent, tell us about

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the theodicy and why it's so
important to this discussion

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that we have about God and
freedom of Will and an evil and

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horrendous evil, tell us how
theodicy sort of intertwines

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these three further mind when I
said theodicy thought I was

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talking about home.
Or, you know, the Odyssey and

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The Iliad, so it's not Homer,
it's see, Odyssey and the D.

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I see why in the end is sort of
making god making Gower

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exonerating God in the face of
evil, and it is pretty much

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common sense, right?
It's it's whatever.

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But every person of faith is
mainly struggling with is in a,

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why do I have so much anguish
and so much, you know, sort of

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perpetration that You see why is
God allowing all of this?

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And is God really there for me
and for us and so I mean we all

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have that mean even children and
so he wasn't really handled in a

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systematic way until really
later in the 17th century when

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the term was coined by a
philosopher wideness of things

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lost for at the time but it was
already in.

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Suitably there in all of the
early writings and even in the

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Bible, even in Paul, in st.
Paul specially is, you know,

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what do we do?
How do we grapple with this, you

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know, this this demonic least in
the biblical sense, you know,

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the Demonic presence and what
why is God?

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But but then well, okay, so God
sent his only son, you know, the

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early Christians said, you know,
and that that's kind of a

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theodicy because God is guessing
the problem he's sending his,

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his son to sort of wage
spiritual war against these

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forces demonic forces as the
early Christians thought and he

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confronted Satan and he deposed
him, you know, so these kind of

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activities are this very
enactment of theodicy that early

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cringed Christian sort of saw
that that you know, God's God's

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got our back, you know, against
these forces because they were

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dealing with this, Really pretty
violent and dark power.

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You know, the Roman Empire that
was a basically enslaved them

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the Jews.
So, you know, they're reaching

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out for a for an answer.
Is it going to be a messiah that

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will lead us, you know, into a
new new world or World.

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It will be something else,
right?

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So so, you know, the so we get
the sort of the first theodicy

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is what we read in the Bible,
and I think exemplified in the

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Gospel of John.
John and, but it's based on this

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notion of a kind of a conflict
and have it a war in heaven, and

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that's the first of seven or
eight distinct versions.

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That I trace all the way up to
Modern theology there, different

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Renditions of good versus evil
and how good prevails, and how

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God is sort of defended, you
know, defending God's

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omnipotent.
So this is this this issue of

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omnipotence Zero critical to
this because you know God is

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all-powerful.
So you know what?

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Come on.
God had come and pull us out of

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This calamity.
There were in the middle of if

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your all-powerful and if you
really love us show us that you

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care and the you know
providential care you but just a

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lot of ways to to to address it
and and there are at least three

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distinct ways that ancient
Christianity began to do

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theodicy as he we here today, as
you mentioned, you Do many

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people refuse to believe in God,
especially post-holocaust

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because they ask themselves
this.

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Very integral question is, if
there is a God, why does he

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allow evil to happen?
A loving God would prevent and

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that's when you get into the
theodicy, that's when you're

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trying to like you say,
exonerate God for the evil, that

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is for some reason allowed to
happen.

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Why do we suffer all of these
questions?

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That could come into every moral
person's head and what your

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book?
Did so eloquently, is it?

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It it took the various
theodicies of the people down

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Through the Ages and how it in
each generation.

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It was almost like everybody had
their, their well-thought-out

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opinion of what they what they
thought of the Odyssey.

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What does what is God's
relationship?

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Do we really have free will is
everything predetermined?

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If everything is predetermined?
Maybe we don't have free will

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and that is that is the the the
ongoing debate in theodicy.

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Well said Jim.
Yeah, I think that's pretty good

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that, that if you see the issue
of predetermination or

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predestination is really comes
up in a huge way as another

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answer to this, which is that
God is in control even of evil.

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I mean, so evil is not really
evil.

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It appears to be, but God is
harvesting these apparently bad

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experiences for the good for
greater good actually.

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And so, you know, that's, that's
Not a bad concept on the surface

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and that Christians come up with
that and they utilize that and

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it still is the in a way the
central teaching of, you know,

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main lines least parts of
Mainline protestantism or

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certainly fundamentalist
protestantism.

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For example, let's go back to
the the enlightenment, the

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so-called Age of Reason and and
maybe even perhaps the

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introduction of humanism as its
own theodicy because sort of

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where I see the the modernized
secular world today.

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But this really had its roots
during that period of cons and

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other philosophers of that era
who were trying to debate the

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existence of deity and played
into, you know, the ideas of

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being endowed by our creator.
And those are the things that

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some of the things that you
bring up in your book.

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It's analogous to what happened
in the 20th.

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Century also happened in the
17th century 20th.

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We do deal with the world wars.
Hiroshima will back then.

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They had a really, really great
Calamity which was the war that

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was set off by the Protestant
revolt.

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And you know, a lot of us, don't
really get enough instruction

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about that and high school
college, but it was a really

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great disaster for the
Continental Europe that which

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then moved over in England in
the Civil War there. 17th

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century.
It was it really made Theology

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and religion and the church look
really bad.

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So there was a Revolt of
intellectuals as you just

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indicated and it's the same kind
of Revolt that we have today,

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the secular revolt and back then
it was well at least we have

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human reason and reasonable
people with never countenance in

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a religious Warfare and and
Slaughter of you know, a

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Protestant Spike Catholics and
vice versa.

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So let's get rid of that and
come back to the material basis

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of our life, you know.
So then you get science and you

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get the sort of the basic
principles of Enlightenment

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philosophy, which is real law,
natural law.

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So, so rather than this
spiritual law, which we get

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these, you know, these
priesthoods that are, you know,

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telling us about these spiritual
principles, but but we have now,

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we have The ability to measure
nature with reason and with

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mathematics and, and, and what
do we need these people there,

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because we can create a better
world through science really

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through rationality.
So that becomes in a way of

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theodicy or a substitute for
theodicy.

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Yeah, tell me.
Who is it Peckham the the

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Contemporary philosopher
religionist that you spoke of

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who you mentioned came very
close or has very similar.

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Use on the Odyssey to the
Urantia book, so who was Pepe?

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Oh yeah, great, yeah, John
Peckham, you know?

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You when you when you look at
the literature you find the

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outstanding books on this and he
was really perhaps the best I've

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seen by few theodicy, cysts by
philosophers of religion and he

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is more on the conservative side
is actually a Seventh-Day

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Adventist.
But they're very, very high

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level of philosophically trained
Theologian at the very Apex of

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of fat of that church teaching
their semin being Seminary.

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So he really picked up a lot of
threads to that the ranch a book

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has put together already but he
put it together through couple

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decades of research that there
must be.

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You know, the Bible talks about,
you know, the devil and the

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devil's presence.
But there's got to be these

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mitigating factors that explains
why Jesus did not really put an

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end to the preface to this full.
So rebellious, Angel presence,

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and we have a Mythic framing of
it in the Bible but let's do it.

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Let's do a philosophic framing.
Now that we're, you know, in the

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postmodern age, how would we
look at that as a philosopher?

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It's a theologian.
And so he shows basically what

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the Rancher book feels.
In which is there had to have

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been this prior agreement with
the satanic forces which allowed

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them to remain on the planet,
even after the Incarnation of

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Christ and for them to operate
in this kind of modify way and

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and that that they would not be
adjudicated immediately.

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Although their powers had been
had been stripped from them,

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they still could operate.
So it's basically a lot like

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what the ranch ebook That and
he's just inferring it logically

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from from what we see.
No, no way that he would have

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had any connection with the
Urantia book or anything like

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that, right?
Not aware of it.

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No evidence that he did.
He did.

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In fact, I did write to him and,
you know, praised his work and I

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asked him if he would meet with
me at the American Academy of

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religion that we had at your
Ranch a booth there last

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November.
And then there's also another

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gentleman, you mentioned And you
brought it up in your book.

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But Whitehead was also, very
revolutionary and taking the

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religious argument and also
talking about why evil exists,

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can you share us a little bit
about whiteheads?

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Viewpoint in his theodicy
Whitehead?

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Alfred North Whitehead was a
mathematician and genius who can

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who moved over from mathematics
at the very highest level in the

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world really to philosophy and
He and Bertrand Russell wrote

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the primary text on mathematics
in the night around 1910.

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And so he then came in
philosophy when he left England

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and and I went to Harvard.
So he wanted to Think Through

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logically the prob these
problems and problem of evil and

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many other problems and came up
with this notion that deity

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evolves.
And that's really kind of

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unprecedented, but there was a
sense of that Century earlier in

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hegel's philosophy.
And his school of thought has a

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huge Wing that states that
school.

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Open theism was very interesting
modern wing and kind of the

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comes out of that white heady
and view that says, well God

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could do that, but God is self
restraining and doesn't do that

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and less there are, you know,
very sort of cosmic and And

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critical reasons which is
basically the you the Urantia

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Book View as well about that.
So but but white heady and

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reject the idea of omnipotence
and you need to be an omnipotent

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deity to really do interventions
that are efficacious.

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So they say that God is not
controlling in that way.

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But God is initiating.
Why his agency known as

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primordial deity.
This part of the city that has

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the ability to initiate.
E8 Evolution.

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And so in a way it's a
commentary on darwinian Theory

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but it's but it's a more
philosophical theological to how

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does this come into being?
Well, there's a Creator deity,

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that brings it into being, but
the deity doesn't have powers

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but the deity doesn't control
it.

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But rather is a deity of
persuasion that the deity

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provides ways of once rational
hominid, hominids become

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rational, they Or can be
persuaded by various agencies of

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deity, which which they, which
are fairly limited for them.

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For example, they don't really
think of of an incarnation of

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the second person of the Trinity
that they don't see it that way,

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that that it's some of them do,
but, but Whitehead didn't than

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that, it wasn't, it wasn't
according to the Christian view

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that God has become incarnate in
order to persuade us, but they

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have the view that God is.
Inside you and that that's how

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evolution is taking place but
not through these external

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agencies at that omnipotent
deities able to use, but it's

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still a beautiful, beautiful
notion because that is the idea

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more or less of the Supreme
Being, who do you think you

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really were just went?
Wow, that was a brilliant, you

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know, thinker Who impressed you
the most?

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I think that Whitehead is really
near the top but what I did do

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in the book is I chose this set
of the very best of them seven

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or eight and all of them are
kind of equally very profound

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but partial And I say that
because the conclusion of the

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book is is stating these seven
or eight, great ideas are all to

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be found in the you be in other
words, a UB also located these

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ideas and then Incorporated them
as human sources yet has to be

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because there's some times it is
like with other human sources.

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There's a this like a
paraphrasing that's pretty.

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Direct for example Luther is one
of the yeah, one of the seventh

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or eighth grade and Luther's
justification by faith is almost

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literally quoted word for word
in the words of Jesus in the

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Rancher book.
And that is part of theodicy.

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It's a partial view.
It's a view having to do with

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the individuals, individuals,
interior, moral life, and the

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kind of surrender and acceptance
of ones that want to saved by

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faith.
And so, so that's an example.

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Will you be borrowing as a human
Source from loser?

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But it but I argue that, you
know, they have they have an

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Olympian knowledge of human
theology, the revelator's and

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and so they're going to Echo the
greatest thinkers and seen

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augustin's one of them obviously
acquaintances another but these

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more modern 19th century early
20th century, they are echoing

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Whitehead and very distinct
ways.

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But also a number of other All
the ones in a way is Central to

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the UB Zone, native theodicy,
which we see in the, you know,

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statement on the inevitability.
He's on page 52.

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I don't think I would have been
able to appreciate your book and

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I recognize that the your auntie
book has really broadened, my

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understanding of spirituality,
more than I expected.

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Were you pleased?
That the Urantia book was

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consistent.
I didn't quite recognize that

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till you know, later later on
first.

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I was like a lot of the ranch of
readers that.

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Well this is all new.
This is totally out of the blue.

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This is pure Revelation, never
been surpassed but but what I

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think the more mature view is
that you realize oh my God.

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This is this is actually in
conversation with these great

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thinkers of the past in our
tradition and literally alludes

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to many of them.
I would add here about about

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Saint Augustine who made some
big mistakes but also hit some

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very Three high points in his
notion of what they call.

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The Free Will defense of God's
goodness.

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And how this guy could have come
up with this is, you know, it's

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the spirit of Truth moving
through him.

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But we have to remember always
with these human sources that

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they are, they are, they are
inhibited by their cultural

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context.
And in the next episode, we will

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continue our discussion with
Byron.

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And talk about the state of
today's religion.

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How Christians can help in the
Urantia book movement, and just

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how much Byron believes?
The luciferian influence is,

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impacting current times, look
for part two, on the Rancher

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Radio podcast.