A Conversation with Byron Belitsos Part 2

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Welcome to the Rancher Radio
podcast, Jim Watkins, good to

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have you here.
And a moment, we're going to be

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joined by Bayern boletos who is
just back from an event of great

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importance.
He attended a conference in

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Washington DC, in late November
at the American Academy of

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religion, and it was the first
time at the Rancho book presence

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was felt at this convention that
attracts thousands of people

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from around the country.
And even around the world who

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are in the business of teaching
religion in our Our cities in

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our schools and Byron is going
to share what he experienced and

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much, much more here on the
ranch Radio podcast, we have

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Byron bullet.
The thought we had them on a

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couple of podcasts ago and he
was headed off to the American

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Academy of religion which was
held in DC and it was a big deal

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around the funding firing as you
are doing that.

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While I was on a cruise, You
were there with all these do you

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know, religious teachers and
professors in here?

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I am juggling beer on a boat in
the middle of the Caribbean, but

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I thought of you would rather
have been with you actually, but

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you were kind enough to write
about because I asked when I got

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back I wanted to know what you
know how it went and and there

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are so many things that you
wrote that.

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I just felt compelled to get you
back on and and maybe talk about

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some some of it, you would
mention that there were 100

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other major seminaries and
institutes on hand that were

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there.
You were members of the Rancho

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Fellowship, lending Goodwin
David Cantor.

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Big buck Weimar and re-read Otis
Sharon atoms.

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They were there.
Chuck Thurston was there.

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You had a lot of support.
So what was it like?

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And in first question for you,
which is what you would, has

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motivated you to do this is that
you want there to be a

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scholarly.
I just discourse about the

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Urantia book.
Be right?

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So you're feeling is when you
went into the Seminary.

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A couple of years ago, you
realized that there was so

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little reference at all to the
ranch of look in any scholarly

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order.
And so, tell us that story first

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about what it was like, you
were, you were going to Seminary

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Union, Theological Seminary,
it's 2021, so, tell us that

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experience.
Oh yeah.

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Thanks, the union Theological
Seminary or, you know, it's

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right next door to Columbia
University and upper west side

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of New York and Colombia has
this fabulous library.

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And of course, you know, the the
digitized periodicals of all

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fields of knowledge.
And so you know those grad

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student you get to search these
databases and you do a thorough

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search on the ranch a book for
periodicals for essays and do

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scholarly pieces.
There was practically nothing.

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I'm In really nothing there, but
in books in the, you know, the

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huge huge, you know, Library
there, the Columbia has, you

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know, upwards of 10 million
books and that's connected to

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the Seminary libraries, 800
thousand volumes main menu,

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theology, religion, and their
only two bucks.

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There was the ranch, a book, but
an old Edition, and with the

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stamping as to when it was taken
out, when it had been checked

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out which they used to have.
And it was only a Poor people

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have checked it out, really?
Oh yeah.

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Oh sure.
Yeah, it was.

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Yeah, and not the right addition
an old Edition and then Martin

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Gardner's book was the other
book.

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That's important that right
there.

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Would it upset me a lot?
I would have.

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And so that means you think
okay, well, something's got to

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be done about this.
I mean, yeah.

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I mean you know we're those of
us that are sort of activists

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about this and wanting to get,
get this rolling in these

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different things.
Ñ use right and One of the

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venues that we haven't paid much
attention to is this the

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academic world.
And so there are was in pretty

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academic setting and I mean I
knew what it was going to how

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was going to be and I you know
figured there wouldn't be much

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there but at couldn't believe it
was so little you know serve

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example the Urantia book
secondary works that we all know

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about like the pair ammonia or
something.

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Those aren't in there and so I
Contacted him and I gave him a

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list of things and actually
don't know if they ever required

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them.
But in any case, I had to deal

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with that, and I had planned to
do some work on the, you be

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there because I told them going
in, I was going to do it, and to

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my surprise, they let me in to
do that, but it wasn't.

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The only thing I wanted to do,
but I applied to Princeton

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Divinity School.
Also, when they really overtly

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said, like to my face, Face.
No, you can't do that research

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here, why?
Jesus the whole thing?

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Yeah.
So God that's that's that's

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another story maybe for another
time.

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But you know, you could have
done this at Harvard, you know,

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for example because Harvard they
broke ground because of an Angie

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first and was there and brought
that forward at Harvard Divinity

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School.
So a lot of credit to her to get

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that done.
But Harvard's really wide open

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in the Divinity School.
And where I was a wide open, do

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you mean they're open?
They're tolerant of other views.

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You mean wide open or wide open
in the sense that they need

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more?
They're not up there.

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They don't, they don't really
they're not really picking or

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picky.
Yeah, they're not particularly

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picky because they're their
background.

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A lot of people don't know this,
but Harvard is not like any

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other Seminary, really.
Because it Harvard Divinity,

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School was founded by.
Italians right in the early or I

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think mid 19th century, right?
So unitarians are quite

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open-minded.
Yeah, they are right though,

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it's not like it's a Yale
Divinity School or Duke Divinity

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School which you know, pretty
you know, not real conservative

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but but definitely focused on
biblical roots.

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And of course, I go far beyond
it, but it, but it is there.

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They're Christian cemeteries
that are Combination will, but

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this is Harvard is not didn't
really other than unitary, but

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even though you're tearing is
not a non-denominational, you

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know, they're they're, they're
not strict about Doctrine,

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right?
That's just, not so, but

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Harvard, but making that happen
at Harvard, was that was a bit

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of an inspiration for me, trying
to do the same thing at fairly

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equivalent seminary in New York.
And, and lo and behold I did let

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me in and I got a Jesuit guy who
was my reader of my thesis and

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who was, you know, just what's a
great this way in the sense that

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they are interested.
Widely interested widely read

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people and open-minded.
So this guy enabled me to do it

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even though he didn't know what
the UB was, but he sort of

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trusted me and so I was able to
do research of not even

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research.
I was just exegesis Of the

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Urantia book itself.
Yeah.

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When I reach your truth, evil
and sin and the Demonic, or at

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least excerpt from it.
I got the feeling that you were,

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you were very careful about what
you included, as reference

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material, from the Rancho book.
It was it was very well done

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because you could tell you were
trying to take as much of a

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objective approach as you could
without without the appearance

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of having a personal preference
for the ranch of teachings,

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Okay, it didn't it didn't sound
at all.

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Like, you were someone who was
actually a reader for a long

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time.
Was that your intent was to sort

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of keep it?
So it wasn't a personal, but

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more of an academic approach to
using using anecdotes from the

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book, you know what I'm asking?
Well, I certainly do Jim and in

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the field of theology, you know,
most of the most of the

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academics are members of, or
sort of Friendly to a

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denomination, you know,
certainly the Catholic

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theologians are and but most of
them will disclose that their

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Methodist or the Presbyterian.
And so you can't you don't want

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to hide that, but you want to
have a critical distance from

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from the materials.
That's the whole point, right?

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And so you do both you, you but
you you don't use the occasion

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to evangelize, right?
But you do, you know, you will

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exploit Kate you know whatever
it may be John Wesley or

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whatever your source is and so I
actually hate the you be but

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without the adverbs and
adjectives as you know.

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Yeah.
And that's a smart approach

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because it just gives more
credulity what you're trying to

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do.
So you go to this convention.

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So you you've determined from
your experience at Union

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Seminary, the Theological,
Seminary that you now motivated

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to go and see what Avenues are.
Available to get the Urantia

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book up out more.
And so just from the experience

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you had at this event was that
surprising to you?

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How many people have even heard
of the Rancho book at this

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convention?
Virtually none.

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There were over seven thousand
attendees.

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You know, most all of them
academics future analysts and we

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had a pretty In Your Face Booth.
And that's a couple thousand

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passed by our booth because we
were kind of on the far end

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where they put the small, the
small organizations.

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So, but a lot of people want the
entire West Wing.

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Right.
Yeah, but Catholics, but and you

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know, they should because, you
know, these are Big institutions

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with, you know, history, lots of
info, And they have, you know,

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it's so it's not so much that
it's the seminaries in the

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universities, but it's mainly
the Publishers that are

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affiliated with them and or
independent Publishers in the

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field of Theology of which there
are maybe 20, major ones, you

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know, published for worldwide
and, you know, the best academic

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stuff.
And so they have these big, big,

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big exhibits there.
And as far as the eye can see

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I'm in their books.
Being put out on every topic,

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we're Kitchen Theology.
And so yeah, we had back to your

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question that we we could tell
you can tell as people passed

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your booth that they recognize
that or don't and then you just

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use a little good little sad for
her for all of us to realize,

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you know, in our experience
there, how little we are

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recognized.
Are these people who are there

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on the floor to see what's going
on right there walking by and,

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and, and you, you soon discover.
So, you know, is once an hour,

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did we have, somebody really
stopped to ask what this is and,

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and, and now and then there'd be
somebody say yeah, I've heard

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about that from a graduate
student or, you know, somewhere

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along the line.
We ran into this, but I don't

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know what it is.
It was kind of a, but in there

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was a few that really did there
was maybe three or four and that

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kind of knew what it was
wondering if you had anybody who

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knew what it was but had a bad
opinion of it or maybe a

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preconceived notion ain't but
they wouldn't come up and tell

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you that obviously but I wonder
if but it's shocking to me, you

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know, you guys are all there.
We you know everybody who's

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listening to this program you
and I we sort of have our lives

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involved in this and it's I find
it somewhat tragic, doesn't

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Affect my belief but I find it
tragic.

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And I wonder you must think
about this, too.

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What are we doing wrong?
Are we doing something wrong?

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First, it says funny you say the
word tragic is that was the word

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I wanted to use to tell you,
yes, this actually went into

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this interviews.
I want to get across the gym

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that this is tragic.
So we're in agreement on that

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and and, you know, I think it's
really we put it on of kind of a

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mundane level and we could say
in answer to a question, why is

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this the case?
It's simply it's simply because

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nobody wanted to Target that
audience in particular over the

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decades then and there were
reasons for that.

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I mean I think one of them is
that you don't know how to get

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started because you don't have
anything to stand on other than

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a single text.
Yeah, and and that's not how I

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could do.
They work from they work from a

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set of texts and essays articles
reviews.

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So you want to get a body of
something then you can begin to

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build a discourse from that but
but you never Get into the

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academic business with a single
text that you call revelatory.

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So you in your own in your own
Community, you would have

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scholarship going on in the
community, right?

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So you could put that get that
shirt.

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Make sure that gets into the
journals.

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You know, that's so that's
another thing we didn't try.

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00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:56,500
People who are academics, did
not try, who are you Ranch book

224
00:13:56,500 --> 00:14:00,100
and who are academics?
Did not publish anything.

225
00:14:01,100 --> 00:14:06,100
That I know of, in terms of
reviews, essays research pieces

226
00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:11,600
in any academic Journal, there
may be exceptions but so you

227
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:18,000
don't have that 2.2 And I would
think that, after 50 years, I

228
00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:20,500
mean, certainly Meredith
sprunjer has written books.

229
00:14:20,900 --> 00:14:25,100
I think Sadler wrote A Few.
There have been other, Angie, as

230
00:14:25,100 --> 00:14:28,000
you mentioned, Angie Thurston, I
think just published one within

231
00:14:28,000 --> 00:14:31,300
the last five years.
Other was other works that most

232
00:14:31,300 --> 00:14:34,800
Siegel has sponsored the
foundation and you're right.

233
00:14:34,800 --> 00:14:37,400
There isn't, if you go to any
bookstore, if there's still, any

234
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,700
bookstores in your neighborhood,
in this has always been the case

235
00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:43,800
you go into a Barnes & Noble and
you see all these, you go to the

236
00:14:43,808 --> 00:14:47,200
religious, Action.
Oftentimes, you won't even see

237
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:51,200
the Rancho book, but you'll see
every other cockamamie, you

238
00:14:51,200 --> 00:14:54,200
know, anything to do with Zen,
or as a million different

239
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:56,000
things.
But yet, you know, the greatest

240
00:14:56,000 --> 00:14:59,800
assemblage of writings probably
in the last 500 years and yet

241
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:03,400
it's, it's not there, it should
be, there should be at our

242
00:15:03,400 --> 00:15:05,600
libraries.
I know it's in our prisons, we

243
00:15:05,600 --> 00:15:09,000
spent the first 20 years trying
to get the book into prisons and

244
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,500
they still do it and I think
it's great but you know that's

245
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:16,900
your right where was I guess the
argument could be made.

246
00:15:17,200 --> 00:15:19,600
Well, Jesus, didn't worry too
much about the scribes and

247
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,400
Pharisees, did he?
And I guess there's some truth

248
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,500
to that, but he was still
considered a rabbi because he

249
00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:29,500
had the education of the, the
Old Testament at his fingertips.

250
00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:33,200
He could pull a quote out of the
air like anybody so he could use

251
00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,600
the academics arguments from the
Old Testament, from which they,

252
00:15:38,000 --> 00:15:42,100
you know, Source their material.
But the ranch a book and maybe

253
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:44,400
Matthew blocks book could be a
big help to this.

254
00:15:44,600 --> 00:15:48,600
Because he's Unearthed a lot of
these Source sources, you know,

255
00:15:48,800 --> 00:15:51,200
even though the Urantia book,
doesn't give direct credit to

256
00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,800
where that Source was Matthew
block, have you blocked us,

257
00:15:56,400 --> 00:15:58,500
right?
So Matthews work, for example,

258
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:01,800
should be in these databases
that I was Consulting when I was

259
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,700
in a seminar and they're not in
there.

260
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,600
And you know, that that would be
one of the first things that you

261
00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:12,600
would think would be in there.
Meredith, some of his work

262
00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:17,200
should be there.
Sadler is Sadler would be but

263
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:19,600
nothing he never really put out
a book on the UB.

264
00:16:19,600 --> 00:16:23,800
Although Sadler Junior, you
know, have his study, the master

265
00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:29,100
universe that should be in there
in such a library but it was

266
00:16:29,100 --> 00:16:32,200
never anybody.
That was focused that I know of

267
00:16:32,200 --> 00:16:37,200
that was, especially focused on
getting it into these Seminary

268
00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,200
and University libraries.
So, you in what you have to do

269
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:46,300
is you have to get reviews
written by Scholars, you know,

270
00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:51,800
and to get it, you know, noticed
by the, by the libraries, by The

271
00:16:51,800 --> 00:16:58,400
Librarians, they hold on.
Well, you know, I think this is

272
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,500
the thing that, however,
Catherine has been arguing for a

273
00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:03,200
long, long time.
Yeah, yeah.

274
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,400
That's why.
He's put so much effort into his

275
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:10,400
works because you know for me
the simple reader, I'm amazed at

276
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:14,300
all the pre scientific
statements made in 1934.

277
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,099
We're not confirmed until
decades later.

278
00:17:17,099 --> 00:17:20,200
I could write a list of them.
I've written a list of them.

279
00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:23,599
They're still amazing to me that
and to me, that would be

280
00:17:23,599 --> 00:17:26,500
evidence, you know, they're
here, here's some evidence, how

281
00:17:26,500 --> 00:17:29,600
did they know this 1934?
But you, and I had that

282
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:33,100
discussion in the last podcast
and you said that the weakness

283
00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:34,900
of that argument is you're doing
it.

284
00:17:34,900 --> 00:17:38,500
Because you believe it already
and you can't, he can't take

285
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:40,100
that approach.
You have to be very.

286
00:17:40,900 --> 00:17:44,200
It has to be, I don't know.
What would you start with?

287
00:17:44,200 --> 00:17:47,500
I You studied the book.
You're a reader.

288
00:17:47,600 --> 00:17:52,600
If you were going to approach
the say one particular paper, or

289
00:17:52,600 --> 00:17:57,100
one subject from the book that
you could go after and unearth

290
00:17:57,700 --> 00:18:01,100
some, I don't know scholarly
knowledge.

291
00:18:01,100 --> 00:18:03,300
What would you, what would you
choose?

292
00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:06,900
I guess, what area of the book?
Do you think you would want to

293
00:18:06,900 --> 00:18:11,000
try to go in and take a
scholarly Approach at explaining

294
00:18:11,000 --> 00:18:13,900
or?
Yeah, the one that I'm currently

295
00:18:13,900 --> 00:18:16,800
doing.
NG with the topic of Good and

296
00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:18,200
Evil that one.
Okay.

297
00:18:18,200 --> 00:18:19,200
Yeah.
That's a good one.

298
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:20,800
Yeah.
Because you're one.

299
00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:24,600
Yes.
And that's of great interest

300
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:28,500
solve easily in any generation.
There was the problem here with

301
00:18:28,500 --> 00:18:34,100
so much evil here.
And and, and how do we know the

302
00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:35,700
good?
How do we know the Divine will?

303
00:18:36,200 --> 00:18:39,300
Well, one way is, by contrast
with evil, but what really is

304
00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:41,800
evil and what are they, or their
degrees of evil.

305
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,300
And what is others said about
it?

306
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:50,300
So my, my task was see, not just
to do exegesis of the ranch

307
00:18:50,300 --> 00:18:53,100
book, that's what we tend to do.
We just do it either.

308
00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:57,500
Even the, you know, the book by,
you know, they even Matthew

309
00:18:57,500 --> 00:19:00,100
blocks work.
Well, no, I would say not

310
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:04,400
Matthew block, but say the study
of the master Universe by Sadler

311
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,900
jr.
Is just about the UB.

312
00:19:06,900 --> 00:19:11,200
It's not a comparative, right?
And that's what you need to be

313
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,200
doing you need.
So, when my current book, You

314
00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:20,100
know, I have 200 Pages talking
about everybody else's ideas

315
00:19:20,100 --> 00:19:25,700
about about evil, you do, right?
And that's what you do, I need.

316
00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:30,800
So, you know, you show you show
an interest in, in, in

317
00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:36,000
everything around the topic.
Not just your what you believe

318
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:38,200
in, and that's what we call a
scholarship.

319
00:19:38,200 --> 00:19:42,300
But if there's nothing wrong
with, you know, what you believe

320
00:19:42,300 --> 00:19:46,200
in and doing a Actions of that.
And that everybody does it.

321
00:19:46,200 --> 00:19:53,400
But that's not scholarship
unless you use a methodology of

322
00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:55,200
a little bit of critical
distance from it.

323
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,100
And this is kind of why I think
you want to try to.

324
00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:03,000
I mean, you have a pretty big
plan your auntie book, academy

325
00:20:03,600 --> 00:20:05,400
yours.
Are you?

326
00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:06,700
Let's talk about that a little
bit.

327
00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,100
Tell us about this.
What is you be a?

328
00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,000
Yeah, you be a is, you know
what, I kind of hatched the idea

329
00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:19,100
of having a booth there, which
was made me queasy right away.

330
00:20:19,100 --> 00:20:22,500
Because I knew it was going to
be difficult to pull it off.

331
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,800
I think you had to put down the
name of the entity.

332
00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:31,700
He and I did not want to do this
as a Rancher Fellowship project

333
00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:33,700
because that's an advocacy
organization.

334
00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:35,600
That's a, that's reader
Believers.

335
00:20:35,600 --> 00:20:38,600
I didn't want it to be that or
the or the foundation.

336
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:42,700
So I invented a new entity so I
could call it that at the booth

337
00:20:42,700 --> 00:20:46,700
that was an independent entity
that was had a scholarly Focus.

338
00:20:46,700 --> 00:20:50,600
So I so it was a little bit
drill premature because it

339
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:52,500
hadn't been thought through that
much.

340
00:20:53,000 --> 00:20:56,400
But yeah, so I kind of came up
Name.

341
00:20:56,400 --> 00:21:01,400
It's a generic sounding name and
so you see this at the booth and

342
00:21:01,400 --> 00:21:04,600
the people say, oh, these people
are doing critical study of

343
00:21:04,600 --> 00:21:07,700
their own of their own
revelatory text, that was the

344
00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:12,200
idea behind it, but there's two
parts of that.

345
00:21:12,200 --> 00:21:15,700
You might say, one part of it is
just get the ball rolling one

346
00:21:15,700 --> 00:21:24,500
way or another for this notion
of critical scholarly Research

347
00:21:24,500 --> 00:21:26,700
into the text.
That's Just anyway, you want to

348
00:21:26,700 --> 00:21:29,000
do it.
And so this is just one of many

349
00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:32,700
ways, it's just announce an
entity that that has that ideal

350
00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:35,000
and and that's it could have
been done another way.

351
00:21:35,000 --> 00:21:38,100
Another way to do it would have
been this launch a scholarly

352
00:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,400
Journal?
Yeah, well they do have journals

353
00:21:42,400 --> 00:21:48,600
around Fellowship has the
journal Right, because you could

354
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:50,800
never get that journal into a
seminary.

355
00:21:50,900 --> 00:21:54,100
No, no.
It's, it's, it's it that.

356
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:58,700
So the idea of a Urantia book
academy would be to bring to

357
00:21:58,700 --> 00:22:03,700
attract people who would be as
part of their academic, study to

358
00:22:03,700 --> 00:22:07,500
apply, critical studies to the
Urantia book, and delve into the

359
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:10,200
subject matter.
And, and, and then do the

360
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:14,600
research to substantiate,
whether the authors were

361
00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:18,100
accurate or not, is that sort of
in the direction you Wanting

362
00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:21,600
that to head and then you could,
then have a is that am I on

363
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,100
track?
Yeah, you started so totally on

364
00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:26,400
track and you know, it's a way
like anything else.

365
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:31,700
I mean you you get disinterested
Scholars.

366
00:22:31,700 --> 00:22:37,300
So to speak who would take up a
topic about what is your Ranch

367
00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:41,100
book, say about the trinity.
And if the writing a book about

368
00:22:41,100 --> 00:22:44,000
the Trinity, they can cover in a
couple of paragraphs and say,

369
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,800
well, this is esoteric text or
whatever you want to call this,

370
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:51,300
which states that the Trinity,
you know, has these permutations

371
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:54,300
in 27 and that these, you know,
or whatever you want to say,

372
00:22:54,900 --> 00:22:57,400
this is what you could imagine
that somebody would do

373
00:22:57,400 --> 00:23:04,000
comparative study of that and
compared to what to what parent

374
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:07,900
likes that or what about the
baby, something a little bit

375
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:12,000
more rooted in science.
Let's say you took the first the

376
00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,800
ranch book explanation of the
origin of our son you know we

377
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:18,500
pegged the Big Bang if I've got
this right.

378
00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:21,800
The Big Bang according to
current science is 14 billion

379
00:23:21,800 --> 00:23:27,200
years ago which is about the
time of the last disgorgement of

380
00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:31,600
the giant nebula that spawned
the birth of our son and that's

381
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,300
just my own non-academic putting
two two and two together to come

382
00:23:36,300 --> 00:23:39,300
up with four but couldn't
someone take a scholarly

383
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:44,000
Approach to just that theory
that the Urantia book says and

384
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:47,500
then go out and find out if it's
possible through our

385
00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:49,800
understanding of astronomy to do
today.

386
00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:54,200
To determine that our son is
indeed the result of a nebular.

387
00:23:54,400 --> 00:23:58,200
Disgorgement 17 billion years
ago we won't whenever it says it

388
00:23:58,200 --> 00:24:01,000
was that's what I'm talking
about.

389
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:04,000
Like there's a lot of Science in
the ranch a book that I think

390
00:24:04,000 --> 00:24:09,800
would be red meat or people who
are, you know, curious Well, you

391
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:13,000
know, that's where we're closest
to what I'm calling for.

392
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:17,900
We're already doing scientific
symposia, which in which people

393
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:22,300
do look at current knowledge
outside of the Rancher book and

394
00:24:22,300 --> 00:24:25,200
compared with the UB, right?
So that would be a scholarly

395
00:24:25,500 --> 00:24:28,400
approach to it and that's what
we need to do.

396
00:24:28,400 --> 00:24:34,800
So we're doing a decent job with
science now and but, but you

397
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:37,300
were not taking the next step
which is to get bring it to the

398
00:24:37,300 --> 00:24:39,400
larger Community.
We're just We're just doing it

399
00:24:39,408 --> 00:24:43,100
for each other.
We're not doing it such that,

400
00:24:43,300 --> 00:24:48,200
it's a grad student in cosmology
somewhere could find it.

401
00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:52,100
If they did Research into that
question, they wouldn't find it.

402
00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:54,500
You know, they're only.
So we're outside of those

403
00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:58,300
databases of Scholars.
And so it's not that hard of a

404
00:24:58,308 --> 00:25:01,000
thing to do.
We take you to a period of

405
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:05,200
years, to get this stuff in
Portage in to these databases

406
00:25:05,200 --> 00:25:09,700
and get a person who Nigel none.
Somebody like that.

407
00:25:09,800 --> 00:25:15,000
Yeah, to to send his article
into a well-known academic

408
00:25:15,000 --> 00:25:16,700
journal and see if they'll pick
it up.

409
00:25:17,900 --> 00:25:21,600
For example, be better.
If you're a PhD, you know, that

410
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:25,000
you could do that.
And that's sort of what Meredith

411
00:25:25,000 --> 00:25:27,000
did.
I mean Meredith was out there

412
00:25:27,000 --> 00:25:30,700
Hawking this book in the early
60s and he gives it to all of

413
00:25:30,700 --> 00:25:32,600
his friendly.
He knowing that Meredith was a

414
00:25:32,608 --> 00:25:35,500
very influential, man.
I mean, he could probably call

415
00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:37,900
and he could probably get an
audience with the, you know,

416
00:25:37,900 --> 00:25:40,800
President Kennedy, if you tried,
you know, back then.

417
00:25:41,200 --> 00:25:42,700
And that's what exactly what he
did.

418
00:25:42,700 --> 00:25:45,700
He handed it out to a bunch of
Scholars and some of them looked

419
00:25:45,700 --> 00:25:47,600
at him and said, I'm not reading
this.

420
00:25:47,700 --> 00:25:52,000
This and then and then it will
judge gave him the book.

421
00:25:52,500 --> 00:25:55,900
His introduction was somebody
gave him a book and I think it

422
00:25:55,900 --> 00:26:00,100
was Judge Hammerschmidt who was
I think, was he a Supreme Court

423
00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:03,100
judge or was he a state supreme
court judge?

424
00:26:03,100 --> 00:26:05,900
I'm not sure what we call.
Yeah.

425
00:26:05,900 --> 00:26:09,300
And so he was aware of the book
gives it to Meredith and it took

426
00:26:09,300 --> 00:26:13,100
Meredith almost a year before
his before he realized he had

427
00:26:13,100 --> 00:26:17,400
something important but it seems
like we have a long.

428
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,400
So Do you think that next year,
when are you going to plan on

429
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,300
going back to this every year?
And what are you going to do?

430
00:26:23,300 --> 00:26:26,300
Did what should we do
differently at the next, you

431
00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:29,900
know, symposium Well, big
question.

432
00:26:29,900 --> 00:26:32,500
Yeah, I think that the
fellowship committee that

433
00:26:32,500 --> 00:26:36,900
funded, this the Outreach
committee is they just got in

434
00:26:36,900 --> 00:26:41,700
touch with me to say they
probably want to fund fund it

435
00:26:41,700 --> 00:26:46,100
next year and that would be in
San, Antonio Texas of all places

436
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,800
where they're holding it and
it's a very expensive

437
00:26:49,800 --> 00:26:53,600
proposition but I think they
would because the kind of the

438
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:58,200
feedback that I've been getting
is, you know, people are happy

439
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,200
with the fact.
That we tried this.

440
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,600
And so yeah, that would be the
next thing also, they have

441
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,700
Regional scholarly meetings of
theologians and religious

442
00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:10,700
studies professors.
So I'm going to 1 actually in

443
00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:15,000
February at Princeton
Theological Seminary where I

444
00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:18,800
hope to get a paper accepted on
the UB and I think I'll be able

445
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,800
to do it and maybe they have
Bill Booth are.

446
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,400
So yeah, it's just it's just you
just you just do what any

447
00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,400
scholar does you show up at all?
The venues that you read your

448
00:27:28,400 --> 00:27:34,300
paper Sore and or you get a
booth, if you have a any area of

449
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:37,100
scholarship that you excel in
you you have a booth and you put

450
00:27:37,100 --> 00:27:41,100
it out and everybody does it.
Had been anybody that's in this

451
00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,400
field wants their work known?
So why are we do that?

452
00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:48,100
And I think we it's so just an
intention to do it and nobody

453
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:51,400
seems to have Advocate gentian
to do it someday.

454
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,100
I mean, I imagine at some point
some somebody who is the Rancho

455
00:27:55,100 --> 00:28:00,000
book student of the taxable it
will emerge in a Academia and

456
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:01,700
introduce it in the way that
they know how.

457
00:28:01,700 --> 00:28:05,300
Like, it Angie Thurston there
more of them, but I think also,

458
00:28:05,300 --> 00:28:07,900
and maybe I was thinking about
this, when you were talking

459
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:11,200
about it, you know, the one
thing that works against us is

460
00:28:11,200 --> 00:28:14,500
that we don't have time.
You know, we're not archaic,

461
00:28:14,700 --> 00:28:18,500
they're in there in some ways,
our culture's like books that

462
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:21,300
are that are rooted in
Antiquity, it gives them more

463
00:28:21,300 --> 00:28:24,300
Authority and then I think
that's what we're missing it in

464
00:28:24,300 --> 00:28:28,400
the Rancho book is relatively
young in my opinion.

465
00:28:28,400 --> 00:28:33,800
It has Had a chance, the seeds
are not sprouting quite yet, you

466
00:28:33,800 --> 00:28:37,300
know, right.
I think that's the case.

467
00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:41,000
And that as Merit astronomers
pointed out, among the others,

468
00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:49,100
you the authority of the Bible
is only because of time and the

469
00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:53,800
fact that the greatest minds of
the Roman Empire in Byzantine

470
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,500
Empire, you know, got engaged
with it and wrote, you know,

471
00:28:57,500 --> 00:29:02,800
books and you know Scrolls of,
you know, of exegesis of the

472
00:29:02,800 --> 00:29:06,200
gospels or whatever.
So you just have to have that

473
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:10,500
activity that it be makes it
preponderant culturally.

474
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:14,000
And so, what we have been
missing is we have nominated

475
00:29:14,000 --> 00:29:18,700
preponderant, culturally outside
of our own circles, very much.

476
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:20,900
Yeah, we're preaching to the
crowd, you know.

477
00:29:21,200 --> 00:29:22,600
Yeah.
We preach to the choir when you

478
00:29:22,608 --> 00:29:25,800
do your will pour live.
Religion work has been really

479
00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:29,000
big breakthrough, you know for
us to get out there with You

480
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:31,400
know, Nan Your ranches.
So that's that's a good example.

481
00:29:31,400 --> 00:29:34,300
I think.
Also the scientific symposia are

482
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,300
really close to what we need.
It is a people doing, go to one

483
00:29:37,300 --> 00:29:41,500
of the issues is it needs to be
comparative, it needs to look at

484
00:29:41,500 --> 00:29:45,200
current knowledge and compare it
to the UPS statements on that

485
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:47,200
topic.
And we do that in this

486
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:50,000
scientific Symposium.
That's so it's so all you got to

487
00:29:50,000 --> 00:29:55,600
do is just move it a little bit.
Horizontally sideways into the

488
00:29:55,600 --> 00:29:58,700
journals with, you know, the
right person.

489
00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:04,300
Person who has a PHD in science,
some scientific field that with

490
00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:06,400
them, just give it a, give it a
try.

491
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:09,100
But I think it's like a chicken
egg thing because you don't want

492
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:14,200
to be the first guy to do this.
It's really, it's tough.

493
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:18,200
And in my case, I waited till I
was almost 7 years old, you

494
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:21,600
know, because you don't want to
be in any kind of get in

495
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,300
trouble.
And that's why the scholars at

496
00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:26,100
that.
We know that our, your Ranch a

497
00:30:26,108 --> 00:30:30,200
book people at our phds who were
teaching They're all their

498
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,600
underground.
They're they're they're

499
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:34,600
self-censoring as we say.
Yeah.

500
00:30:34,700 --> 00:30:39,800
Not, not a fun word, but but
they can't, you know, keep their

501
00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:42,900
employment and and do the, you
know.

502
00:30:42,900 --> 00:30:46,400
So so somebody has to.
So somebody like me, I'm

503
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:51,200
independent and I don't have
such a job and I can take a risk

504
00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:55,300
of my age and and but you know
what would have been even

505
00:30:55,300 --> 00:30:57,300
better, would be that there
would be people in the

506
00:30:57,300 --> 00:31:00,500
fellowship or in the foundation.
You whose work is Staff.

507
00:31:00,500 --> 00:31:04,300
Work is their Staffing.
This so that they could say,

508
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:09,400
look, we have these 20 major,
you know, theological journals.

509
00:31:09,600 --> 00:31:14,600
Let's try to get the UB itself
reviewed in a journal.

510
00:31:14,700 --> 00:31:18,200
How do you do that?
Well, you mail it to the other.

511
00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:22,400
That's what, that's what
Publishers do and, but they've

512
00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:25,300
never done that.
Well, maybe we need to do that.

513
00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:27,800
We're giving away books
everywhere else.

514
00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:30,400
And that's why it was
Encouraging their, you know,

515
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:34,100
Tamara was kind enough to get
you books for the AR, which is

516
00:31:34,100 --> 00:31:36,200
great.
Because yeah, we did our great

517
00:31:36,200 --> 00:31:39,700
job at getting it in prisons and
getting into public libraries,

518
00:31:39,700 --> 00:31:41,400
that people don't even go to
anymore.

519
00:31:41,700 --> 00:31:45,400
Let's now get it to to the
influencers people, not because

520
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:49,500
we're trying to convert them,
but because there's good news to

521
00:31:49,500 --> 00:31:56,100
be found, I mean, my God, if we
had more of a modicum of

522
00:31:56,100 --> 00:31:59,200
objectivity here, we really do
think we're the only planet in

523
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,400
the universe and we just can run
things the way we want.

524
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,500
I mean, the world is in a mess
because of this, this lack of

525
00:32:06,500 --> 00:32:09,100
knowledge.
We we don't know that we are

526
00:32:09,400 --> 00:32:12,900
much smaller than we think in
the universe is much larger than

527
00:32:12,900 --> 00:32:15,800
we even know.
And until that gets, I think

528
00:32:15,800 --> 00:32:17,900
that's why this book was given
at this age.

529
00:32:17,900 --> 00:32:21,400
I think you mentioned it that
the Rancher book is a response

530
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,400
to the Mayhem and the
disorderliness of this, this

531
00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,100
current world.
It's God saying I'm here like

532
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:31,300
with a You know, one of those
things I'm here I'm here.

533
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:36,300
And this is his, I'm here moment
you know, the Urantia book so

534
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,200
that in those are not your words
but that's what your inference

535
00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:42,200
was that like the way you put
that job.

536
00:32:43,700 --> 00:32:50,000
Yeah, I mean it's also that the
celestials know that the Bible

537
00:32:50,100 --> 00:32:52,800
has been really in the
mid-nineteenth.

538
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:55,600
Century was the beginning of the
end for the Bible as being, you

539
00:32:55,600 --> 00:32:59,300
know, sort of like in eretz who.
I so up until early 19th

540
00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:02,700
century, there's hardly anybody,
you know, other than the French

541
00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,600
Phyllis of sorry you know that
he is.

542
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:09,000
You know I mean almost every you
know just could you could not be

543
00:33:09,300 --> 00:33:12,300
critical of the Bible.
So the Bible criticism is really

544
00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:14,800
150 years old.
So, by the time you come to the

545
00:33:14,808 --> 00:33:18,700
early 20th century, the leading
lights of Christianity.

546
00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:25,000
Knew that the Bible was was was
full of incorrect information.

547
00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:29,900
And so that's why the UB is a
response to that dilemma, which

548
00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:32,900
is now, we're going to correct
the record as to what happened

549
00:33:32,900 --> 00:33:35,600
in those.
And then all the way back to

550
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:39,900
Melchizedek, right?
So you need to do that, you

551
00:33:39,900 --> 00:33:43,000
know?
And we is a tragedy of this is

552
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,200
that.
Look if you if you will go to

553
00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:50,000
these these conferences, they
are slicing and dicing every

554
00:33:50,300 --> 00:33:53,400
paragraph in the Bible with
hundreds of books.

555
00:33:54,100 --> 00:33:58,200
Well, it's also yeah.
Oh, it's on spiring to walk the

556
00:33:58,200 --> 00:34:01,300
floor because they're trying to
you know, they're trying to get

557
00:34:01,300 --> 00:34:05,300
to the bottom of what In their
exegesis of the Bible because

558
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:09,100
there's a desperate need to know
what these issues are about

559
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:12,100
informant for the modern mind
for the postmodern month.

560
00:34:12,100 --> 00:34:14,600
So they're doing, you know,
these wild and treat, you know,

561
00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,900
these these don't while, but
these imaginative

562
00:34:17,900 --> 00:34:23,000
interpretations of the Bible.
So the current day and I noticed

563
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,900
that as well, that's their job,
they have to make and every

564
00:34:26,900 --> 00:34:30,600
generation has to give a new
interpretation for the current

565
00:34:30,900 --> 00:34:32,900
needs and that's what they're
doing.

566
00:34:33,600 --> 00:34:35,600
With thousands of Scholars of
doing that.

567
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:39,100
And with the UB we've got, you
know, like five.

568
00:34:39,100 --> 00:34:42,199
People are trying to do that.
And so we just need to up the

569
00:34:42,199 --> 00:34:44,500
numbers, you know, get people
doing this number one.

570
00:34:44,500 --> 00:34:48,000
Number two, they have to get
tested it, do the logistics,

571
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:49,699
they have to get to those
journals.

572
00:34:49,699 --> 00:34:55,300
I have to wear that to go to
these seminaries and just show

573
00:34:55,300 --> 00:34:57,800
up and begin to talk about this,
write their papers, a better.

574
00:34:57,800 --> 00:35:01,200
Write the thesis like I did,
like Angie did and get the ball

575
00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:04,600
rolling.
Yeah, because the hour is late.

576
00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:08,700
Yeah, I think they're in
certainly, it would help if we

577
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:11,700
had influencers that would talk
about a once in a while.

578
00:35:12,600 --> 00:35:15,300
I learned a long time ago, that
it's funny.

579
00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:18,000
Very few people have actually
read the book of Mormon.

580
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:20,600
I bet you most people that are
call themselves.

581
00:35:20,600 --> 00:35:23,000
Mormon have never read the
entire just, like most

582
00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:26,100
Christians have never read the
entire Bible, but they'll swear

583
00:35:26,100 --> 00:35:29,500
on that Bible.
And you can tell people all

584
00:35:29,500 --> 00:35:31,500
about the great things about the
Rancho book.

585
00:35:31,500 --> 00:35:34,600
There's a billion different
great things about it, they may

586
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:37,700
never read it, but that doesn't
mean that they can't learn from

587
00:35:37,700 --> 00:35:42,400
its truths and you don't have to
get into, you know, the Trinity

588
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:45,800
and the, you know,
existentialism in the

589
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:48,800
unqualified absolute and all
that, you know, you have to kind

590
00:35:48,800 --> 00:35:51,400
of go at people's level, but
there's nothing wrong with

591
00:35:51,400 --> 00:35:54,400
talking about the fact that GE,
you know, saying to somebody

592
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,100
will, you know, Jesus could have
chosen 10, other world, 10

593
00:35:57,100 --> 00:35:59,200
million, other worlds, to go to
any chose hours.

594
00:35:59,800 --> 00:36:01,600
Now, people might scratch their
heads and say, what are you

595
00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:04,100
talking about?
But it will plant a seed in

596
00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:08,200
their mind that maybe life is
much more bigger, much bigger

597
00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:13,100
than we thought, maybe it wasn't
just a, you know, a smart

598
00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:17,300
philosopher in the, you know,
2,000 years ago, maybe he came

599
00:36:17,300 --> 00:36:19,700
from somewhere else.
Where is that somewhere else?

600
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:21,300
What is that somewhere else
will?

601
00:36:21,300 --> 00:36:23,200
He told us about that somewhere
else?

602
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:26,700
And you know what, you can read
about his entire life if you're

603
00:36:26,700 --> 00:36:28,200
interested.
I'll give you this cool book

604
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,700
that I found.
And there you go.

605
00:36:30,700 --> 00:36:33,100
You've had you've had the
discussion and that needs I

606
00:36:33,100 --> 00:36:36,500
think that to be in more places,
you know, Madonna is out there.

607
00:36:36,500 --> 00:36:40,600
Pushing, you know, how many
recruit she had to the Kabbalah.

608
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,800
I don't even know what the
Kabbalah is, but apparently

609
00:36:44,800 --> 00:36:47,200
she's got a lot of people to
sign up for the Kabbalah.

610
00:36:48,300 --> 00:36:52,000
I think it's an old Jewish
ritual, if I'm not mistaken of

611
00:36:52,000 --> 00:36:55,800
some kind, but, yeah, it's a
great tradition tradition, with

612
00:36:55,800 --> 00:37:00,300
texts and ritual and and belief
system, the people are dead,

613
00:37:01,200 --> 00:37:03,800
they want to know, they want to
know, you know.

614
00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,800
And that the certainly with a
breakdown of the family, you

615
00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:11,200
know, the parts on marriage and
family could certainly be

616
00:37:11,200 --> 00:37:13,300
introduced.
I wish that you could go on a

617
00:37:13,300 --> 00:37:15,300
TED talks.
And I'm asked you this before,

618
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:18,500
when you came out with your,
you're evolving soul, His people

619
00:37:18,500 --> 00:37:21,600
are hungry, for people want to
know, what is the soul?

620
00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:23,300
What is this?
Do I have a soul Byron?

621
00:37:23,300 --> 00:37:26,500
You know, can you explain that
to me, you know, that's what

622
00:37:26,500 --> 00:37:29,800
people are dying for this
information and it's for the

623
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:32,300
information.
You also, this may be too big

624
00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:35,800
levels here that we should be
thinking about is that you have

625
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:40,200
a level of sort of the
promulgating, this to the

626
00:37:40,300 --> 00:37:43,700
average person in the street,
which is great.

627
00:37:43,700 --> 00:37:47,000
It's Evangelistic work.
It's, you know, face-to-face and

628
00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:50,600
what we've been doing A lot of
it all just do it and then this

629
00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,900
other level which is a little
bit indirect it seems like he's

630
00:37:54,900 --> 00:37:58,500
trying to influence a professor
who doesn't believe in the UB to

631
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:02,400
put it on his curriculum for a
class and religious studies.

632
00:38:02,800 --> 00:38:06,900
And say this week we're going to
study this unusual text and you

633
00:38:06,900 --> 00:38:09,900
can get it in the library.
It's on reserve and I want you

634
00:38:09,900 --> 00:38:13,500
to read you know paper 170 and
write a paper.

635
00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,300
Like that and that's roughly
what Meredith's bunker did when

636
00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:23,800
he was teaching and you didn't
they did have to believe it.

637
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:25,600
They didn't have to know that
you're a Believer.

638
00:38:25,900 --> 00:38:29,700
It's just this.
It was assigned and and then so

639
00:38:29,700 --> 00:38:31,800
you see that that's a different
kind of thing where you're

640
00:38:31,800 --> 00:38:38,000
beginning to develop a cultural
disk or a discourse that is not

641
00:38:38,000 --> 00:38:43,700
the Believers discourse.
If not the Believers evangelists

642
00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:49,800
it's It's the, it's the next
layer of thinkers philosophers,

643
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,800
Scholars that are what it, what
is this thing aside?

644
00:38:53,800 --> 00:38:56,800
From whether I should believe
it, but what is it?

645
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,800
What does it say about Judaism
in relation to what we think of

646
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:02,100
know about?
Judy is?

647
00:39:02,100 --> 00:39:09,200
Well, it says some things about
You know David you know that it

648
00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:12,100
says the day that isn't what the
Bible tells you you David was

649
00:39:12,100 --> 00:39:16,300
not a really nice guy.
It was not really dignified

650
00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:18,600
person, you know.
So why do they say that?

651
00:39:18,600 --> 00:39:20,500
Is there any?
Is there any other research that

652
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:25,700
supports that about King David?
And you know, that's that's a

653
00:39:25,708 --> 00:39:29,100
very particular and peculiar
example, but you can think of a

654
00:39:29,108 --> 00:39:33,100
hundred examples of how you do
this without without

655
00:39:33,100 --> 00:39:35,800
evangelizing it.
Yeah, well, I think that's,

656
00:39:35,900 --> 00:39:40,000
that's one of many, great
approaches for introduction.

657
00:39:40,000 --> 00:39:43,100
And then I think, you know, is
now, of course, we get into the

658
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:45,500
debate of, okay.
How fast do we want to go?

659
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:47,100
Do we want to go slow?
Do we want to?

660
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:50,800
I don't know if we can determine
the rate at which this thing

661
00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:53,800
grows.
But like the, I recently read

662
00:39:54,500 --> 00:39:57,800
the late, John Hale would say,
leave me out of it and just

663
00:39:57,800 --> 00:40:01,200
focus on the work at hand and
the work at hand, in this case

664
00:40:01,200 --> 00:40:03,300
is just trying to create the
awareness.

665
00:40:04,500 --> 00:40:07,400
Otherwise, but I think the
scholarly approach is important

666
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:10,500
to give it credibility, so long
term.

667
00:40:10,500 --> 00:40:15,600
It's possibly the best thing you
could do because if you get a

668
00:40:15,608 --> 00:40:20,400
professor, doing what's Meredith
did in his classes for many

669
00:40:20,400 --> 00:40:23,800
years when he was teaching in
Indiana, out of that came, a

670
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:26,700
number of readers who were
prominent readers in that

671
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:29,000
region.
They came because he put it into

672
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:34,300
his class curriculum so smash if
you had 20 professors around the

673
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:37,500
Tree assigning, their people and
seminaries were teaching

674
00:40:37,500 --> 00:40:41,100
theology, or whatever church
history that they would assign

675
00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:42,800
this.
In some young student kids.

676
00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,400
Grabs onto this and they make a
career out of it.

677
00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,100
Yeah.
And they teach their, you know,

678
00:40:48,100 --> 00:40:53,900
so it's a different feel to it
than the street level of Angeles

679
00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:58,700
and it's working at this level
of, you know, higher education

680
00:40:58,700 --> 00:41:01,900
and also cultural its cultural.
It's not religious, really, it's

681
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:06,700
a cultural activity.
Red, you're not bringing face to

682
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:09,000
these people.
Like we're, you know, like folks

683
00:41:09,000 --> 00:41:12,800
are working in our booth.
One of the are one of our

684
00:41:12,800 --> 00:41:16,100
slogans was, we're not trying to
save their souls.

685
00:41:16,400 --> 00:41:18,200
Yeah.
These professors, they're

686
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,700
already teaching theology.
We're not there to evangelize,

687
00:41:22,100 --> 00:41:27,200
you know, to, to bring them into
into belief, we're just want

688
00:41:27,200 --> 00:41:30,500
them to know that this exists.
It's on the radar screen of

689
00:41:31,300 --> 00:41:34,200
thousands of people.
And it's a phenomenon that

690
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:36,400
Should be studied doesn't mean
you have to believe it.

691
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,100
And just a study of it is
sufficient, you know, for this

692
00:41:40,500 --> 00:41:43,700
for this Criterion which is to
create a cultural discourse,

693
00:41:44,100 --> 00:41:47,500
that's independent of the of the
bubbly of the believer

694
00:41:47,500 --> 00:41:52,500
community.
And also the Urantia book offers

695
00:41:52,500 --> 00:41:56,000
a lot of the missing gaps of our
knowledge about our own growth

696
00:41:56,000 --> 00:41:59,900
is as a species and so from an
anthropological point of view,

697
00:41:59,900 --> 00:42:04,000
it's a treasure Trove of
previously unknown information.

698
00:42:04,000 --> 00:42:08,400
As they say they sort and sensor
and bring in new things that

699
00:42:08,400 --> 00:42:13,900
maybe we didn't consider.
So anyway, yeah, well, just

700
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:18,000
think it just as finish up.
That thought, I mean that if I

701
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,200
don't know, I mean, is I wrote a
paper on Evolutionary biology

702
00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,100
and the UB and submitted it to
the, to the scientific Symposium

703
00:42:25,100 --> 00:42:30,300
and accepted it and that was in
the light of what Theology and

704
00:42:30,300 --> 00:42:35,300
science says about evolutionary
biology with reference to the

705
00:42:35,300 --> 00:42:38,700
orange origin of life.
So if that article was in a

706
00:42:38,700 --> 00:42:41,800
journal somewhere, somebody's
going to, you know, somebody

707
00:42:41,800 --> 00:42:43,500
who's resources.
That's going to just going to

708
00:42:43,500 --> 00:42:46,200
cite by article and it'll be in
a footnote and then somebody

709
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:47,900
else will see it.
Then we'll say, well, who is

710
00:42:47,900 --> 00:42:49,300
this guy?
What else has he written?

711
00:42:49,900 --> 00:42:52,000
That that's the kind of thing, I
mean.

712
00:42:52,100 --> 00:42:56,600
Yeah and it it is is
meaningless.

713
00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:03,000
Really, unless it gets into the
larger community of biologists

714
00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:05,700
and theologians working with
theologians of science.

715
00:43:05,900 --> 00:43:08,700
It's Benny Lewis is just that's
not totally mean, it's

716
00:43:08,700 --> 00:43:11,300
something.
We Believers it's not being used

717
00:43:11,300 --> 00:43:13,900
to its full potential.
This is knowledge that could be

718
00:43:13,900 --> 00:43:16,200
helpful.
It could Aid in our research of

719
00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,700
ourselves in a multiple of
facets.

720
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:20,600
I totally get what you're
saying.

721
00:43:20,600 --> 00:43:23,300
And I think people listening
here hopefully that will spur

722
00:43:23,300 --> 00:43:26,000
some ideas as well among folks
listening.

723
00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:30,000
So what Byron And thank you for
coming on again and spending

724
00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:34,700
some good quality time with me.
And I'm always excited about

725
00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:36,200
your projects.
You've got a couple of

726
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:39,400
Publications coming out next
year, which I'm very excited at.

727
00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:42,600
We talked about one of them,
which is the truth about evil

728
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:46,700
sin and the Demonic and
integral, The Odyssey for the

729
00:43:46,700 --> 00:43:50,000
21st century, which is from what
I can tell is a great read

730
00:43:50,000 --> 00:43:52,600
because I've read about half of
it and then reason and

731
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:55,700
Revelation, scholarly writings
about the ranch of book, which

732
00:43:55,700 --> 00:43:58,500
is coming out.
And it's from And press so you

733
00:43:58,500 --> 00:44:00,900
are you on track?
Now for these books to come out,

734
00:44:00,900 --> 00:44:04,600
are you almost are you done with
truth about CityVille sin or you

735
00:44:04,600 --> 00:44:08,000
still proofing it and doing the
editing and all that?

736
00:44:08,900 --> 00:44:12,600
Because final proofing is really
due in two weeks.

737
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:17,000
So it's basically done but then
it has to be produced and

738
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,400
printed.
So be several months and the

739
00:44:19,400 --> 00:44:22,600
other book reason that
Revelation is really the

740
00:44:22,600 --> 00:44:26,000
Forefront of this effort,
because it's all these scholarly

741
00:44:26,000 --> 00:44:31,200
writings that I Find by people
like Sadler Emeritus fun or

742
00:44:31,200 --> 00:44:35,300
essays by number of people, some
of whom were using pseudonyms,

743
00:44:35,800 --> 00:44:42,300
that would be a Vanguard text
for use in universities, you

744
00:44:42,300 --> 00:44:46,500
know, because the only other
text is just a very few, you

745
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:49,300
know, the that they could there
really isn't enough, but this

746
00:44:49,300 --> 00:44:51,700
would do it.
This is a, this is an anthology

747
00:44:51,700 --> 00:44:55,000
of really good writings.
And so, yeah, that's that's more

748
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:56,600
like six months out.
Okay.

749
00:44:57,500 --> 00:44:59,300
Yeah.
Well, as always a pleasure to

750
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:01,800
talk with you.
It's an honor for me and I know

751
00:45:01,800 --> 00:45:03,500
for the audience as well.
So thanks again.

752
00:45:03,500 --> 00:45:07,500
Byron, and thank you.
Jim for doing a great work,

753
00:45:07,500 --> 00:45:10,000
appreciate very much, appreciate
you as well.

754
00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:14,500
It's Byron ballistas, ladies and
gentlemen, so glad to have him

755
00:45:14,500 --> 00:45:17,200
on the show, talk about what's
going on and we look forward to

756
00:45:17,208 --> 00:45:20,700
having him on again, real soon.
And also, thank you for stopping

757
00:45:20,700 --> 00:45:22,600
by.
Of course, follow us online.

758
00:45:22,600 --> 00:45:26,200
Anytime your Rancher, radio
dotnet, and our podcast

759
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:29,000
available worldwide.
I share the good news and the

760
00:45:29,000 --> 00:45:31,100
till next time, thanks again for
stopping by.