Important Next Steps For The Revelation

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Welcome back.
How are you?

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Well, thank you and it's great
to be here.

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I appreciate it, Jim.
The website is UB annotated.com.

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So if people want to, you know,
check into the website that way

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on sub stack under my own name,
Halbert Katherine or or you do

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the news.
That's what I get.

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And yeah, yeah, so those things
are, are coming out and, you

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know, I'm trying to just start a
new adventure here with outreach

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and with research and, and all
of it because I just got into my

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retirement years.
And so I got a little bit more

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free time to do things and, and
you know, see what kind of

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positive difference I can make.
I met Halbert a long time ago.

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We're both long time Urantia
book readers.

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We've had a lot of talks on the
phone and he had a really great

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sub stack.
Speaking of Sub Stack, and it

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was called Faith and Belief
First Mysticism, the Paranormal

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and the Tides of Time.
And he talks a lot about what's

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happening, making some
observations about the Urantia

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book and the movement.
And one of the things that you

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raise up in the Substack, and
that's what we're going to be

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talking about here, is this this
sort of revival and channeling

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and some of the impacts of that.
And it's a very well written

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article.
Of course it's timely too,

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because you mentioned about the
Holy Spirit and how that sort of

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changed everything and and just
general observations on the

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Urantia movement itself.
How would you define that today?

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What is the Urantia movement to
you?

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Well, you know, one of the
things that this writing this

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article did for me was to it was
an effort to try to get some

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perspective for myself, because
the phrase, the word Urantia

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movement, you know, sort of by
definition there it, it's

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something that that's moving.
So we're trying to define a

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moving target.
You know, we hit a moving

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target.
So we've got a, a challenge

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right away.
And the Urantia book is

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relatively new on the scene of
religious movements, and it's

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been definitely evolving and
having noteworthy transitions in

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its short career so far.
And that means someone who's

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trying to do research and
writing and provide study aids

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for the book.
I always have to reevaluate who

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am I writing to?
Why?

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What's the audience?
What's the point?

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What are we doing here?
And what I came to most recently

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was just to stand back from it
and, and appreciate that when

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Jesus sent the apostles out and
the Pentecostal spirit was

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activated for the first time,
you know, if you believe it.

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But even if you don't believe
it, just on a purely secular

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level, we can observe
sociologically that some people

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went out and really changed
humanity's culture in a certain

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way with a religious message.
It was very powerful and there

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were notable characteristics to
it, like non violence and it had

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dramatic repercussions with
things like slavery and, you

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know, the social institutions,
even though that wasn't

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necessarily part of the theology
specifically.

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And it was an actual outworking
of it.

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And so the point here is simply
that all of it, no matter what

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we believe, are growing up in a
world where there's this story

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about some people who changed
the world with their spiritual

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religious message.
And it's not just a story like

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we can all see that
Christianity's had a profound

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impact on global culture at this
point.

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So no matter what 1 believes or
thinks, just by virtually the

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fact that we're growing up in
this world that has this type of

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history, it has an impact on our
idealism.

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It has an impact on our goals
and values and ambitions and

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what we, you know, think we
might accomplish and what's

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possible.
And so then with that, you know,

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2000 years of history developing
in human consciousness and

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coming up to the modern times,
we also have issues where you

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get waves of interest in
spirituality.

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We talked about the 60s in
particular as a time period in

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the United States and even it
extending a bit globally, you

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know, especially in Western
culture, so forth, where we

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recognize that people are just
activated and passionate and a

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long religious line.
And so that creates a certain

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waves pattern, you know, or a
blip, you might say, right in in

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the general energy of humanity.
And the Urant revelation came

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along just in time to catch that
wave, you know, that blip of

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powerful spiritual energy that
isn't destined to last.

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So we come out of the 60s
movement and we still have a

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community that's excited about a
new revelation, but there isn't

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any longer this broader social
movement that is just inspiring

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people to get involved in all
kinds of different stuff.

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And so that creates a whole new
social challenge.

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And it's, I think been very hard
for people to adapt to that.

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And one of the things that
happens in that void, I think

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is, you know, channeling or
other mystical type of things

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start to become interesting
because they're new and they're

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interesting, you know, and
whatever is getting old and,

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and, and more settled is less
interesting to people in certain

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ways.
And this is a problem, you know,

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this is like the familiarity
breeds contempt type problem

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that we need to be cautious
about because when you got an

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ethical revelation that's going
to, you know, need to go through

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different social transition
periods, you know, it's in order

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for the culture to develop and
progress well, it needs to

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wisely ride through and and
recognize these different

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phases, you know, otherwise we
can get off track.

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And so I started to look at
ways, you know, that that was

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happening.
And so that that was sort of,

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you know, I guess what we might
say the the main thesis of of

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this last writing was, you know,
just calling upon all of us to

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kind of take a look at what this
revelation really is.

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What are the particulars about
it?

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What do we need during this time
period?

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To what degree is it a time to
till the soil versus harvest?

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You know, these are are real
questions.

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And Jesus talked about this in
parables that are, you know,

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very important.
I mean, because these aspects of

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growth and development and and
cycles and ripeness and and

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accelerated periods and and so
forth, it's all important.

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Well, life is very much a multi
variable calculus.

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And so I think, you know,
getting comfortable with it

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really requires doing the math.
You know, what is there to do,

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when, why and how.
And if we don't stay true to

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that, then, you know, we can
easily, you know, get off course

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in certain ways.
Yeah, you mentioned in your

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article about the approach of
the shamanistic approach to the

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Urantia book.
We're citing some examples, you

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know, talking about the
Apocrypha of the earlier Ancha

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book in this idea that some of
the midway errs continued to

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channel with people that were
involved in the book.

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That's one thing that's kind of,
you know, been around.

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And I like your point about is
like, well, just because there

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might have been some information
given to certain people that

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didn't mean that they can now
turn around and, and sort of

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walk around as if they have a
special connection that the rest

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of us don't have, you know, and
that's where it starts to get

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dangerous and shamanistic.
You've got people out that are

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claiming they've channeled
information and they're talking

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to Melchizedek every week.
And, and I don't know about you,

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but I'm kind of a skeptic.
I'm not saying that God doesn't

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communicate to people in his own
personal way, but this idea

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that, and this is what Sadler
was against too, by the way,

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Bill William Sadler definitively
stated that the Urantia book was

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not a channeled document.
So it's not giving authenticity

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to this idea of spirit spiritism
and channeling.

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And you know, do you know what
I'm talking about?

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Yeah, I do.
Of course it's a challenging the

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conversation because there
needed to be these different

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types of interface for the
development of the Rancho

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Revelation.
So the story goes, I mean, there

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were there was a forum and
questions asked about early

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drafts and then you know, more
material coming through and it's

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all mysterious how it happened
and everything.

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And so, you know, that was it,
it's unique process.

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And in that context, right,
there was presumably all kinds

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of instructions that were given
about how to move forward.

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And, you know, these were
apparently meant to be kept

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secret.
And they weren't, or at least

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some of them weren't.
And when they come up for

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conversation is, you know, part
of a a political history and

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with tensions and, and, and
these messages, you know, play

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in a certain way to the favor of
of those with one agenda versus

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another.
Usually in this case, we're

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talking about go fast, go slow,
centralized control rather than

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people free to do what they
want.

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You know, these sort of classic
issues that came up and where it

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play right away.
And I don't know how to sort it

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all out, you know, in terms of
developing strong beliefs about

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when they stop getting
instructive messages or any of

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that stuff.
It it it's a very challenging

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type of conversation.
I'll say this, that we're seeing

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something that's already played
out before and we know about

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this from the life and teachings
of Jesus, that the resurrection

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shifted the message of the
gospel.

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So where the message became
about the resurrected Christ.

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And he had warned against that.
He had said, look, spread the

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gospel to everybody.
And, and now what we're doing

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here similarly is that we got
this book and there's some

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questions about how it came to
be, but the focus should not be

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on the book itself, but rather
what the book is trying to tell

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us about reality.
And, and it's sort of like

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giving advanced calculus to a
kindergartner in many ways.

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And that's probably why it takes
a long time for people to sort

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of get the book.
But the emphasis should always

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be about what the book says, not
what the book is or the it's

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divine relationship.
That's what I think you and I

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can agree on.
And when it deviates from that,

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then it becomes cultish.
Then it becomes a group, you

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know, like, you know, that
that's the thing that I fear the

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most is that you'll have this,
you know, all these cults that

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celebrate a different aspect of
the Urantia book because the

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Urantia book is a has divine
connections.

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You see what I'm saying?
Well, you know, there there's

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the human connections that are
purported to exist, but then

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there's the book itself as a
connection.

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So I, I, I think it is sort of
this twofold aspect.

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There's the beingness of the
book, its nature as an epical

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revelation that you can believe
it or not.

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And then there's the information
in it and what to do with that

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information.
And those are are two distinct

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things and I think they're both
important.

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And in this case, you know,
there were structures set up,

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organizations set up to try to
work with and develop a Urantium

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movement, but there was not a
priesthood, right?

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There was not a second hand
religion type of structure on

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that level.
And nor should there have been.

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I mean, I think we want to.
Avoid trying to support.

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Religion, right?
Well, wrong.

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In other words, for instance,
the the Quakers don't have a

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hierarchically based social
structure, but they most

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certainly have a religious
culture and our religion.

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So you know, the problem is, is
with second hand religion

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becoming a predominant aspect of
institutional religion through

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priesthood or second hand
religion becoming a predominant

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aspect of individual religion
through various Mystic practices

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and people just going out and
doing their own thing.

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You know, the second hand
religion issue is an issue,

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right?
And, and so the urant revelation

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as a as a book allows for people
to have their direct experience

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with revelation and to create
culture around that, that honors

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belief in what the book teaches
about its own nature.

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Right.
And, and so that's why I, I

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think, you know, there's a
beingness to it that is

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absolutely religious.
And that is the challenge of our

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day.
And that is the challenge of the

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revelation is, you know, to
create religiosity anew, to make

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all things new.
And and that's a challenge and

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and people want to run away from
it more than they that is.

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True, isn't it?
They don't.

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They don't want to have a a
specific explanation of what

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heaven might be like, because
then that would mean you're

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giving yourself in.
It's like a no no.

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No, no, I mean, people don't
want to create a religious

226
00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:42,360
organization because it takes a
lot of work.

227
00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:43,320
Oh yeah?
Well.

228
00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:44,840
Right, Right.
That's what I mean.

229
00:15:45,200 --> 00:15:50,560
People in their sense of freedom
and individuality, and because a

230
00:15:50,560 --> 00:15:55,440
direct connection with God is of
preeminent importance, it

231
00:15:55,440 --> 00:16:02,320
becomes very easy to just sort
of give up on a more collective

232
00:16:02,320 --> 00:16:05,880
relationship to it all.
And when you've got a new

233
00:16:05,880 --> 00:16:13,280
ethical revelation that has a
message that is not, you know,

234
00:16:13,280 --> 00:16:16,600
evenly distributed, I guess
there's one way to put it.

235
00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:21,280
It's like the gospel message is
a spiritual message that is

236
00:16:21,320 --> 00:16:24,960
evenly distributed throughout
the population.

237
00:16:25,800 --> 00:16:30,080
It doesn't matter what your
background is or much how old

238
00:16:30,080 --> 00:16:33,840
you were, how you're brought up.
It's about simple, Hey, we're

239
00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:37,160
all children of God.
You know, it's like after death,

240
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,600
it's, it's so simple, OK, but
the Urantia revelation is

241
00:16:42,600 --> 00:16:47,200
absolutely not simple.
It's incredibly sophisticated.

242
00:16:47,480 --> 00:16:54,520
It presumes upon high level of
intelligence and understanding

243
00:16:54,720 --> 00:17:00,000
about human culture and history
in order to, you know, get the

244
00:17:00,000 --> 00:17:03,360
most out of it or even get a
reasonable amount out of it at

245
00:17:03,360 --> 00:17:05,319
times.
Well, it's so specific.

246
00:17:05,839 --> 00:17:10,400
It's it's it's yeah.
It is a specific explanation of

247
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:13,560
the goings on of the universe in
which we exist.

248
00:17:13,839 --> 00:17:19,280
That's what it is.
It and it it provides answers

249
00:17:19,640 --> 00:17:25,960
for academics, particularly
historians who are working in

250
00:17:25,960 --> 00:17:31,560
the areas of anthropology and
archaeology and genetics,

251
00:17:31,680 --> 00:17:36,000
biology this way, right?
You know, just as a math book

252
00:17:36,240 --> 00:17:42,800
has answers in the back, the
Urantia book is like that for

253
00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:47,120
us, right?
And, and it's one of those

254
00:17:47,120 --> 00:17:54,520
things where even believers want
to treat it like an answer book

255
00:17:54,720 --> 00:17:59,240
rather than a process book.
In other words, the answers at

256
00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:03,560
the back of a math book are
there to help you learn the

257
00:18:03,560 --> 00:18:07,080
process of math and make sure
that you're on the right track

258
00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,760
and not screwing up, right.
It's not about so you can

259
00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:15,280
memorize the answer to a
particular question on a

260
00:18:15,280 --> 00:18:18,200
particular test.
It's to teach you how to think.

261
00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:25,360
And you can use or abuse the
answers at the back of a math

262
00:18:25,360 --> 00:18:27,560
book.
You know, you can be lazy with

263
00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,680
it or you're truly helpful to
yourself with it.

264
00:18:31,120 --> 00:18:34,720
And I think the arrangement book
has the same kind of quality

265
00:18:34,720 --> 00:18:37,600
about it.
You know, people want to just

266
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:41,040
sometimes get some reassurance
more than they really want to

267
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:45,400
struggle with, with the process
of it all.

268
00:18:45,680 --> 00:18:50,320
And all of this is important and
for different people at

269
00:18:50,320 --> 00:18:52,720
different times, you know, and
in different ways.

270
00:18:52,920 --> 00:18:54,640
So where do you see everything
headed?

271
00:18:54,640 --> 00:18:58,200
I mean, do you see a, what are
the scenarios that you think

272
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,600
will play out over the next 100
years, the next 1000 years?

273
00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,000
I mean, it's hard to know, but
assuming that we survive the

274
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:08,720
current mayhem and we get to
some sort of, I don't know,

275
00:19:08,720 --> 00:19:11,440
reset of some kind.
Do you see the Urantia book?

276
00:19:11,760 --> 00:19:15,960
To me, it seems almost like a,
it moves at its own accord.

277
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:17,920
You know, it's or it's very
organic.

278
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:20,480
Yeah, there are groups of people
to get together.

279
00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:21,840
There's conferences all the
time.

280
00:19:21,840 --> 00:19:25,680
But the main bulk of the people
that I think are reading it in

281
00:19:25,680 --> 00:19:28,360
private or they have somebody in
their family that they share it

282
00:19:28,360 --> 00:19:29,840
with.
And that's fine.

283
00:19:30,160 --> 00:19:33,200
And they and they try to put
into motion a philosophy of

284
00:19:33,200 --> 00:19:37,720
living based on what the Urantia
book instructs us to do in, in

285
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:41,200
specific ways, you know, being
connected with God, serving

286
00:19:41,200 --> 00:19:44,800
other people.
It's interesting if you do a if

287
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:49,680
if you ask AI to collect certain
quotes from the Urantia book

288
00:19:49,960 --> 00:19:52,840
based on a subject.
It's interesting when you read,

289
00:19:53,080 --> 00:19:56,640
you know, 30 different
paragraphs all about prayer and

290
00:19:56,640 --> 00:19:58,040
they're consistent with one
another.

291
00:19:58,040 --> 00:20:00,640
It's an amazing thing.
That's how I think the Urantia

292
00:20:00,640 --> 00:20:04,160
book will grow.
Unlike other religions or

293
00:20:04,720 --> 00:20:07,480
revelations, I don't think
you're going to have the army of

294
00:20:07,480 --> 00:20:10,080
believers that are going to go
out and try to conquer the world

295
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:12,440
and convert other people by the
sword.

296
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,240
With this one, I think this
one's going to be more like a

297
00:20:15,520 --> 00:20:19,960
like the Buddhist, the way that
Buddhism tradition sort of

298
00:20:19,960 --> 00:20:22,480
spread as a culture.
Do you agree with that?

299
00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:27,840
No, I think it's a misdirected
approach to this revelation.

300
00:20:27,840 --> 00:20:33,120
In other words, it's focused on
religious institutions and

301
00:20:33,120 --> 00:20:38,480
religious culture, when this
revelation is really about

302
00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:42,640
academic culture.
So we're dealing on a religious

303
00:20:42,640 --> 00:20:48,360
institutional level where the
your answer, but kind of teaches

304
00:20:48,360 --> 00:20:52,280
us to talk about the angels of
the churches and the angels of

305
00:20:52,280 --> 00:20:55,640
progress.
And some of these messages, you

306
00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:59,920
know, from the midway or are
purported to be talking about

307
00:20:59,920 --> 00:21:03,360
how there's a change from the
angels of the churches to the

308
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:06,720
angels of progress in terms of
who's leading the show.

309
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:11,680
And we can see how religious
institutions in the United

310
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:15,000
States are on the decline and
that all matches up and

311
00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:18,520
everything like that.
And so it's very easy to, you

312
00:21:18,520 --> 00:21:26,280
know, pick up on this 60s wave
of individual spiritual life

313
00:21:26,280 --> 00:21:29,880
and, and the gospel message
being spread by individuals to

314
00:21:29,880 --> 00:21:32,960
the four corners of the earth
2000 years ago.

315
00:21:33,320 --> 00:21:38,400
And, and want to turn the
Urantia revelation into some

316
00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:45,920
type of thing that is in that
aspect of human culture as

317
00:21:45,920 --> 00:21:49,040
compared to academic
institutions.

318
00:21:49,240 --> 00:21:53,240
And this revelation is
specifically for our academic

319
00:21:53,240 --> 00:21:56,520
institutions.
So, so you're saying is it, is

320
00:21:56,520 --> 00:22:00,280
there a critical mass element to
it where because right now it's

321
00:22:00,280 --> 00:22:04,800
still somewhat, you know, under
the radar, but the the.

322
00:22:06,120 --> 00:22:10,080
Before we get to, you know, the
Urantra revelation, what it is,

323
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:13,720
how it might help, I mean, let's
first step back and just notice

324
00:22:13,880 --> 00:22:19,400
that along with the religious
institutions being crushed, you

325
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:25,320
know, culturally, for various
reasons, academic institutions

326
00:22:25,520 --> 00:22:31,120
right now are being brought into
question in a way that I think

327
00:22:31,120 --> 00:22:35,480
was a lot less predictable and
has happened a lot quicker than

328
00:22:35,480 --> 00:22:38,280
what we've seen with religious
institution.

329
00:22:38,560 --> 00:22:42,360
And people are trying to find
their way through learning

330
00:22:42,360 --> 00:22:49,240
process and recreate academia
because it's it's been falling

331
00:22:49,560 --> 00:22:53,480
apart in all kinds of you.
Spend a lot of time around

332
00:22:53,480 --> 00:22:56,320
college, right?
I mean, and often times I'll be

333
00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:58,760
talking to you and you would
just come back from some, you

334
00:22:58,760 --> 00:23:00,440
know, event at some college
somewhere.

335
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:03,760
And, yeah, so, you know, you
kind of have a pulse on what's

336
00:23:03,760 --> 00:23:06,320
happening at that level with
younger people.

337
00:23:06,600 --> 00:23:09,560
Is that what you're you're.
So are they deconstructing

338
00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:12,760
education all together?
And is it a good thing, bad

339
00:23:12,760 --> 00:23:14,040
thing?
Tell me, Tell me more.

340
00:23:14,360 --> 00:23:18,520
Well, I, I think we're, we're
seeing everything happen right

341
00:23:18,520 --> 00:23:20,120
now because it's such a shake
up.

342
00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:24,960
So for instance, on the one
hand, we can talk about how

343
00:23:25,480 --> 00:23:31,120
Harvard University is in the
spotlight these days and they've

344
00:23:31,120 --> 00:23:38,840
got all these DEI stuff going on
and issues that really are

345
00:23:38,840 --> 00:23:44,960
undercutting real education.
And you have students being OK,

346
00:23:45,040 --> 00:23:49,040
let me and then let me just say.
So New England, right, is very

347
00:23:49,040 --> 00:23:53,520
left right and and the academic
institutions that have been the

348
00:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,240
foundation of our Western
culture in the United States

349
00:23:58,560 --> 00:24:02,200
have gone in a very crazy
direction where they're like so

350
00:24:02,480 --> 00:24:06,240
anti scientific.
They became identified with the

351
00:24:06,280 --> 00:24:09,280
transgender ideology.
It's that crazy.

352
00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:15,720
But at the same time, Charlie
Kirk has been whipping up right

353
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:22,200
wing Christian activism on
campuses and was highly

354
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:29,120
effective in recent years was
swinging votes among young and

355
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:35,720
more educated young people
towards Trump right and and and

356
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,640
the right had a reputation for
being less educated than the

357
00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:42,000
left.
But here's Charlie Kirk coming

358
00:24:42,000 --> 00:24:46,640
along and and drawing big crowds
and making a real difference in

359
00:24:46,640 --> 00:24:50,960
elections.
So I want to say that that

360
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:54,160
shows, you know, the
polarization and the intensity

361
00:24:54,160 --> 00:24:58,400
of it all shows that we're
coming into a new time period, I

362
00:24:58,400 --> 00:25:00,760
think is really what I want to
say about this.

363
00:25:00,760 --> 00:25:05,560
I think we're needing to look at
how does the Urantia revelation

364
00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:11,240
fit in to this new thing that's
happening that is combining

365
00:25:11,440 --> 00:25:16,200
politics and religion, whereas
the 60s movement tended to

366
00:25:16,200 --> 00:25:20,560
separate them.
It was a hotbed is like One

367
00:25:20,560 --> 00:25:23,440
Direction or the other with it,
and this is bringing.

368
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:25,560
Together I'll make this
observation.

369
00:25:25,560 --> 00:25:29,880
I think that the last say since
the early 60s with all the

370
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:34,000
liberation and everything that
sort of no, no more rules, you

371
00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:38,840
know, that that would probably
LED as an array against

372
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,960
Christian thought because
Christian thought means you're

373
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:45,600
responsible for your decisions
and family is important.

374
00:25:45,600 --> 00:25:48,200
And we've kind of changed that
whole paradigm now, especially

375
00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:50,680
with the divorce rate.
So I think what we're seeing now

376
00:25:50,680 --> 00:25:53,880
with young people is that did
they saw what a future looked

377
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:56,600
like without religion and they
don't like it.

378
00:25:57,800 --> 00:25:59,360
That's it.
And I think people are now

379
00:25:59,360 --> 00:26:02,240
looking back.
So it's a wave of sorts, but

380
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:04,880
they've seen what materialism
offers.

381
00:26:04,960 --> 00:26:07,720
And he, despite the fact that
we're all so immersed in it,

382
00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:12,080
certainly with technology, we
still feel that we've discovered

383
00:26:12,080 --> 00:26:15,840
that there's it lacks substance,
it lacks meaning.

384
00:26:16,360 --> 00:26:21,640
You've got people, just as a
side note, a Google, I think is

385
00:26:21,640 --> 00:26:26,400
being sued because their AI
developed a relationship through

386
00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:30,520
one of these apps and the person
ended up just shutting

387
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,680
themselves off completely from
society.

388
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:37,480
And then of course, we had that
bombing in Palm Springs, the IVF

389
00:26:37,480 --> 00:26:41,240
clinic from a man who just did
it because he felt like anybody

390
00:26:41,240 --> 00:26:44,560
who brings children into this
world is, is going to is all

391
00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:46,280
they're doing is making people
suffer.

392
00:26:46,600 --> 00:26:49,560
And that this world is terrible
and and we should stop just

393
00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:52,920
having kids because it's a
terrible, it's a terrible place.

394
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:58,280
So these sort of Nietzschean
ideologies and young people

395
00:26:58,760 --> 00:27:00,960
realize that they don't have
hope in anything.

396
00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:03,120
You know, their institutions are
not trustworthy.

397
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,680
So I think this is pushing back
and it's pushing people towards

398
00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,000
this idea that maybe there is a
God, maybe there is meaning,

399
00:27:11,000 --> 00:27:12,800
maybe we are here for something
important.

400
00:27:13,040 --> 00:27:15,320
And maybe that's what Charlie
Kirk and others like him are

401
00:27:15,320 --> 00:27:17,240
tapping into.
Yes.

402
00:27:17,240 --> 00:27:23,560
And I, and I hope that there's
like a transition in thought

403
00:27:23,560 --> 00:27:28,960
among the Urantia movement where
we can stand up for our

404
00:27:28,960 --> 00:27:33,200
revelation where I think we've
been so reactionary towards

405
00:27:33,200 --> 00:27:37,360
Christianity that we've ended up
going in these mystical

406
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:43,960
directions of like teaching
mission or Vern Grimsley stuff.

407
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,760
As I mentioned in in my article,
people can check that out.

408
00:27:48,040 --> 00:27:54,200
But what happened is we looked
at Christianity in the 60s and

409
00:27:54,200 --> 00:28:00,400
and they were the Bible thumpers
who denied science and were in

410
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:05,400
that regard blind.
You know, that blind faith.

411
00:28:05,680 --> 00:28:09,720
And so this idea about having
blind faith and being

412
00:28:09,720 --> 00:28:13,720
unscientific was a stigma.
Right.

413
00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,160
I agree that yeah.
And, and, and Urantia book

414
00:28:18,160 --> 00:28:22,200
readers did not want to be
identified with that type of

415
00:28:22,200 --> 00:28:26,960
cultural stigma.
And so it was tricky because the

416
00:28:26,960 --> 00:28:29,080
last third of the book's all
about Jesus.

417
00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,120
So how, how are people going to
do this dance in the sixth?

418
00:28:32,280 --> 00:28:35,640
Well, they're going to do the
day by focusing on the

419
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:40,200
beautiful, beautiful and
lightning story about Jesus and

420
00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:43,640
even, you know, some of the
theological and cosmological

421
00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,160
particulars.
But you don't have to worry

422
00:28:47,160 --> 00:28:51,480
about getting caught up with
this book the way Christians do

423
00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,040
with the Bible.
Yeah, In your article, you say

424
00:28:55,040 --> 00:28:58,480
that this book different from
the Bible, is that it does try

425
00:28:58,480 --> 00:29:03,440
to integrate total reality.
And whereas the Bible, even

426
00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,920
though what did you say was very
clever, the way you said it,

427
00:29:06,160 --> 00:29:09,520
that even though many of its
stories may not be true, there's

428
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:14,040
actual fact in their origins.
But you I like the way that you

429
00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:18,320
emphasize that the Urantia book
is, is not a narrow approach to

430
00:29:18,320 --> 00:29:20,400
God.
It's it's actually one that is

431
00:29:20,400 --> 00:29:22,760
consistent with science and
right with philosophy.

432
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,520
Is that a pretty good assessment
of what you were saying?

433
00:29:26,200 --> 00:29:29,760
Yes, and this is where I think
that you know, the Urantia

434
00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:34,520
communities had a very hard time
stepping up to this

435
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,640
extraordinary aspect of the
Urantia books credibility.

436
00:29:39,920 --> 00:29:46,920
You know, there there isn't
really a model for saying my

437
00:29:47,240 --> 00:29:55,600
revelation has an evolutionary
aspect to its non human

438
00:29:55,840 --> 00:30:00,360
credential, right with the
Bible, you just believe it's the

439
00:30:00,360 --> 00:30:02,760
word of God by faith and we're
done.

440
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,120
All right, that's it.
OK, with the with the

441
00:30:07,120 --> 00:30:09,960
uranturism.
And, and that wasn't even of

442
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:12,880
course, the gospel message.
That was a whole diversion from

443
00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,040
it that screwed everything up.
Yeah.

444
00:30:15,040 --> 00:30:17,160
And that kind of goes back to
what you were saying in the

445
00:30:17,160 --> 00:30:20,560
beginning, which is, you know,
Christianity has been around for

446
00:30:20,560 --> 00:30:23,160
a long time.
It's, it's, it's, it's, it's

447
00:30:23,160 --> 00:30:26,360
tethered to the past, which
gives it an aura of authority.

448
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,880
Whereas this just recently came
on the scene in historical

449
00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:32,800
terms.
Deal with it, you know.

450
00:30:32,880 --> 00:30:34,240
Now what do we do?
Right.

451
00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:41,160
And people dealt with it in the
way that Christians dealt with

452
00:30:41,160 --> 00:30:47,280
it or that believers in the
gospel message dealt with it or

453
00:30:47,560 --> 00:30:52,160
had experiences, extraordinary
experiences related to it.

454
00:30:52,160 --> 00:30:56,560
In other words, when that
spiritual wave of the 60s came,

455
00:30:56,880 --> 00:31:01,400
people were ripe and open for
believing, right?

456
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:06,800
You know, they were all their
pump was already primed.

457
00:31:06,880 --> 00:31:10,440
Everybody's was more or less.
That's why it was a movement.

458
00:31:10,440 --> 00:31:13,960
That was that's why it was a
wave of interest in the culture

459
00:31:13,960 --> 00:31:17,680
at that time.
And so people were able to grab

460
00:31:17,680 --> 00:31:22,720
on to the urant revelation in
ways that people grabbed on to,

461
00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:29,080
you know, being witness to, but
that wasn't destined to laugh in

462
00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,320
the same way because this is a
different type of revelation and

463
00:31:32,320 --> 00:31:35,000
it's got other things going on
regarding its credibility.

464
00:31:35,000 --> 00:31:40,240
There is not actually a new
Pentecostal spirit related to

465
00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:41,320
this one.
Got it.

466
00:31:41,360 --> 00:31:42,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

467
00:31:42,280 --> 00:31:44,080
No, that's a very, very good
point.

468
00:31:44,960 --> 00:31:46,680
That's right.
But I want to get back to what

469
00:31:46,680 --> 00:31:49,720
you were saying earlier because
it sounded to me like you think

470
00:31:50,160 --> 00:31:53,160
maybe I'm wrong on this, but it
sounds like you think there is

471
00:31:53,160 --> 00:31:57,360
going to be a significant event
in the not too distant future,

472
00:31:57,360 --> 00:31:59,960
possibly.
And that's a relative term

473
00:31:59,960 --> 00:32:03,280
because it could be 500 years,
it could be 100 or even 50.

474
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,840
But you think that something
connective is going to come,

475
00:32:06,840 --> 00:32:12,920
whether it's a Jesus himself or
the second coming or Melchizedek

476
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:15,680
or maybe a combination of a
couple of different things.

477
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:17,880
Is that I've heard you say that
before.

478
00:32:18,160 --> 00:32:21,960
Do you believe that that is more
likely to happen and then that

479
00:32:21,960 --> 00:32:25,160
in that point the Urantia book
is almost like a preparatory

480
00:32:25,160 --> 00:32:28,720
document?
Well, I think that this is

481
00:32:28,720 --> 00:32:33,000
destined to happen and I, I do
think sooner rather than later.

482
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:37,040
I, I thought it was going to
happen with the last eclipse in

483
00:32:37,040 --> 00:32:41,400
2024.
So I was off with that in terms

484
00:32:41,400 --> 00:32:45,800
of a specific time period of
those seven years between the

485
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,880
eclipses.
But as so many Christians and

486
00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:55,640
Urantia book readers will tell
you, just because I didn't have

487
00:32:55,640 --> 00:32:58,880
it right about the eclipses
doesn't mean we're not in the

488
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:01,040
midst of a major transition
period.

489
00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:06,800
There's lots of people who, you
know, have been saying that and

490
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,720
in been saying that
independently of anything like

491
00:33:10,720 --> 00:33:15,160
the eclipses or anything like
the union treaties which said

492
00:33:15,160 --> 00:33:20,480
that the Urantia institutions
were, you know, in default and

493
00:33:20,480 --> 00:33:23,160
gave them a date specific to
correct.

494
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:24,960
Yeah, that was an.
Interesting movement too.

495
00:33:24,960 --> 00:33:28,160
You talk about that.
What was the Unity Treaty or the

496
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:31,480
Yeah, what was that all about?
Well, it just interestingly

497
00:33:31,480 --> 00:33:38,040
enough, you know, in terms of
all the different purported

498
00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:42,520
communications to come through
in the Urantia community that

499
00:33:42,520 --> 00:33:47,400
were outside the four corners of
the revelation but claiming to

500
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:53,520
be something special.
That one was distinct, you know,

501
00:33:53,920 --> 00:33:56,320
from the others in in a number
of ways.

502
00:33:56,560 --> 00:34:01,960
One is it was extensive.
It came all at 1 and it had

503
00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:07,000
origins that were parallel to
the origins of the Urantia book.

504
00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,480
That is an anonymous source and
somebody had to type it up.

505
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:13,480
Yeah, it was like AI heard from
the guy that was behind the

506
00:34:13,480 --> 00:34:16,159
letter and and he calls me one
day out of the blue.

507
00:34:16,159 --> 00:34:18,159
I I'll never forget I'm driving
down the freeway.

508
00:34:18,520 --> 00:34:20,960
I'm coming back from I think it
was Alabama or somewhere.

509
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:24,280
And I get this phone call from
this guy in Ocala and he says,

510
00:34:24,280 --> 00:34:27,480
hey, I had this dream and
there's a white goat that was

511
00:34:27,480 --> 00:34:29,120
born.
And I've gotten all these

512
00:34:29,120 --> 00:34:32,760
revelations and the Urantia book
has the the community has to

513
00:34:32,760 --> 00:34:35,600
come together.
And, and he kind of went on a

514
00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,600
little bit and it sounded like
he was speaking the truth.

515
00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:44,199
But I never quite grasp what I
guess what he told me was the

516
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:47,840
ancients of days have
adjudicated the Lucifer

517
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:51,239
rebellion and something of that
nature.

518
00:34:51,239 --> 00:34:53,360
It means that everything is
going to start changing.

519
00:34:53,920 --> 00:34:56,040
And that's what I got.
Unless we're talking about two

520
00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,440
different stories and then.
I think you're different story.

521
00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:02,240
I think you're talking about
Dick Green's story.

522
00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:06,480
Yeah, possibly, but that wasn't
tied to this this.

523
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:09,080
Different story.
OK, All right, we'll go on with

524
00:35:09,080 --> 00:35:10,680
yours.
But that was fascinating to me

525
00:35:10,760 --> 00:35:11,040
too.
He.

526
00:35:11,320 --> 00:35:13,240
Was very involved with the
eclipses.

527
00:35:13,240 --> 00:35:18,400
He's the one he told me about
the second eclipse and it looked

528
00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:22,440
that up and studied that and and
so I mean you're not like way

529
00:35:22,440 --> 00:35:25,120
off base with having, you know,
thought of him.

530
00:35:25,440 --> 00:35:28,200
There's all kind of interesting
connections there.

531
00:35:28,200 --> 00:35:32,160
And, and he's, you know, written
up and he has a sub stack about

532
00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,680
a vision that he got regarding
the adjudication of the Lucifer

533
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:40,800
rebellion and, and that, you
know, getting wound up in a

534
00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,960
particular way about 10 years
ago or almost that.

535
00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:50,440
And and so there are these
things out there, right that

536
00:35:50,520 --> 00:35:53,160
that, you know, I don't know
what to do with them one way or

537
00:35:53,160 --> 00:35:56,000
the other.
But one thing I can tell you is

538
00:35:56,000 --> 00:36:00,840
we can at least assess them for
their nature, what they're

539
00:36:00,840 --> 00:36:03,040
about, what they're trying to
do.

540
00:36:03,400 --> 00:36:06,920
And that might be enough in
order to get where we're going.

541
00:36:07,000 --> 00:36:11,680
So for instance, the teaching
mission, it was a whole cultural

542
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:15,720
thing of ongoing revelations and
a whole new kind of religious

543
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:17,640
experience that people were
into.

544
00:36:17,960 --> 00:36:24,080
So that's not a question about
is this particular thing a real

545
00:36:24,400 --> 00:36:27,240
revelation from the celestial
world.

546
00:36:27,600 --> 00:36:29,680
That's about, hey, do you want
to come play?

547
00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,440
We're all having like, you know,
our mystical experiences on a

548
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:36,040
regular basis.
You want to be part of it now

549
00:36:36,040 --> 00:36:37,760
that's starting like a whole new
religion.

550
00:36:38,280 --> 00:36:39,920
OK.
All right.

551
00:36:40,320 --> 00:36:45,280
Then you've got something like
Vern Grimsley's messages and the

552
00:36:45,280 --> 00:36:48,800
people related to that, which
were just a few messages that

553
00:36:48,800 --> 00:36:53,800
were like, you know, World War
Three nuclear bomb stuff, not

554
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:57,600
terribly original, right?
You know, that fits into a

555
00:36:57,600 --> 00:37:01,520
certain genre of stuff that
happens and it comes and it

556
00:37:01,520 --> 00:37:05,400
goes, and people tend to lose
their careers over varying

557
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,160
degrees, right?
You know they get flacked for

558
00:37:09,160 --> 00:37:11,040
saying something's going to
happen, then it didn't.

559
00:37:11,240 --> 00:37:13,600
Yeah, we've had a lot of those.
That's why I'm always so

560
00:37:13,600 --> 00:37:16,440
skeptical about it, because, you
know, the dead, what is it?

561
00:37:16,440 --> 00:37:19,800
The the level consciousness,
reality.

562
00:37:20,160 --> 00:37:24,200
It's always safer to take an
approach that if it appears to

563
00:37:24,200 --> 00:37:26,480
be supernatural, it probably
isn't.

564
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,600
You know, God doesn't change his
method.

565
00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:35,880
His method is pretty consistent,
slow evolutionary progressive

566
00:37:35,880 --> 00:37:38,320
growth.
And in fact, it states that in

567
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:43,320
the very first paper, Part 2 of
the book, and in one paragraph,

568
00:37:43,640 --> 00:37:48,120
it really clearly resonates
exactly what this whole program

569
00:37:48,120 --> 00:37:50,160
is about.
And it's not about, you know,

570
00:37:50,160 --> 00:37:54,280
the sudden revelations do come,
but they also come at the end of

571
00:37:54,280 --> 00:37:59,880
a very long period of time where
all of the evolutionary steps

572
00:38:00,240 --> 00:38:05,080
that would make that revelation
appealing had to occur before

573
00:38:05,080 --> 00:38:08,440
the actual revelation itself.
So for example, you know, the

574
00:38:08,560 --> 00:38:10,080
the 100.
Yeah.

575
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:12,440
Well, right.
What's that?

576
00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:17,320
Like, I mean, it's important to
clarify what you're describing

577
00:38:17,480 --> 00:38:24,280
is the regular way things work
when everything is going well.

578
00:38:24,320 --> 00:38:29,000
Yeah, when you have rebellions
and defaults, then that regular

579
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:34,600
ordered evolutionary development
with periodic epical revelations

580
00:38:34,600 --> 00:38:39,360
that are very far apart and, you
know, reflect major, you know,

581
00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:43,400
developments and transition.
You know, that's what's so

582
00:38:43,400 --> 00:38:47,080
challenging for us is that we're
just not.

583
00:38:47,480 --> 00:38:49,840
Sometimes we don't know, You
know, if it is.

584
00:38:51,040 --> 00:38:54,240
Yeah.
Well, I, I, it's, it's a it's a

585
00:38:54,240 --> 00:38:59,840
real honor to be on a planet
that has such a interesting path

586
00:38:59,840 --> 00:39:02,320
because we are an experimental
world.

587
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:07,800
And boy, are they experimenting.
And so are we, you know, And so

588
00:39:07,840 --> 00:39:10,360
we definitely live in historic
times.

589
00:39:10,840 --> 00:39:13,720
But then again, sometimes it
feels good just to be able to

590
00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:17,080
say it and it makes our own
lives feel more important.

591
00:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,480
The truth is that like, just
look at the way Jesus lived his

592
00:39:22,480 --> 00:39:27,280
life and try to emulate it.
And, and that in itself is

593
00:39:27,360 --> 00:39:31,520
really the only thing I think
that can be expected if anybody

594
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:35,400
just go day by day, don't look
too far ahead, don't look too

595
00:39:35,400 --> 00:39:38,640
far back and stay centered on
the moment, doing the best that

596
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:41,880
you can.
And, and, and that's the the

597
00:39:41,880 --> 00:39:45,400
most godly way to live really,
as we saw in the example of

598
00:39:45,400 --> 00:39:48,560
Jesus's own.
Life, one of the things I think

599
00:39:48,560 --> 00:39:54,440
we're dealing with now is a
rubber meets the road sincerity

600
00:39:54,520 --> 00:40:00,080
issue about spirituality.
So there's a lot of different

601
00:40:00,080 --> 00:40:04,000
ways to look at this.
But you know, I'm talking about

602
00:40:04,280 --> 00:40:08,760
issues of credibility,
intellectual integrity, true

603
00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:13,840
science.
We've seen people these days say

604
00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:18,400
all kind of crazy stuff in the
name of love and in the name of

605
00:40:18,400 --> 00:40:23,240
science, and what we see is the
real.

606
00:40:23,560 --> 00:40:30,960
Credibility is not what's
favored over emotion and agenda

607
00:40:31,160 --> 00:40:33,800
and ideology and all these other
things.

608
00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:39,320
One of the great challenges for
myself and other people I've

609
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:42,840
seen over the years is we have
this tendency to want to think

610
00:40:42,840 --> 00:40:47,640
that if the truth comes out,
then people will change it.

611
00:40:47,720 --> 00:40:50,360
That that's all that we need
because people are good.

612
00:40:50,360 --> 00:40:53,920
And if you present them the
facts, then their behaviors

613
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,560
will, you know, accommodate that
new information and it will have

614
00:40:57,560 --> 00:40:59,640
a bright new future and
everything will be great.

615
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:03,160
And it's not true.
And we see it all over the

616
00:41:03,160 --> 00:41:04,400
place.
It's not true.

617
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:09,800
There's other things driving it
that are spiritual, not

618
00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:14,440
intellectual.
So information only goes so far.

619
00:41:14,600 --> 00:41:18,760
People truly don't care what
credibility looks like.

620
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:23,480
So in other words, new
discoveries verifying the

621
00:41:23,480 --> 00:41:28,320
history in the rancher
revelation and demonstrating its

622
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:33,800
celestial authorship that way is
not cared about the real

623
00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:36,760
revolution.
We need to see if you want to

624
00:41:36,760 --> 00:41:39,000
call it that.
I don't think that's probably a

625
00:41:39,000 --> 00:41:44,080
good word, but the, the, the
shift or the wave of true

626
00:41:45,000 --> 00:41:50,600
religiosity that we need to see
is going to have to be congruent

627
00:41:50,800 --> 00:41:58,320
between spirit and mind, our
religiosity and our intellectual

628
00:41:58,440 --> 00:42:03,720
integrity and our sciences.
And I don't know exactly what

629
00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:07,560
it, you know, takes to make that
happen.

630
00:42:07,800 --> 00:42:11,000
It's a very strange thing.
It's a little bit like trying to

631
00:42:11,000 --> 00:42:15,080
teach someone math, you know
what I mean?

632
00:42:15,440 --> 00:42:19,880
You know, it's one of those
things where until the Urantia

633
00:42:19,880 --> 00:42:25,080
Revelation is respected for the
type of credibility that it

634
00:42:25,120 --> 00:42:29,880
offers and the type of help that
it offers along with that

635
00:42:29,880 --> 00:42:35,800
credibility, then we're going to
end up with people doing all

636
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:43,640
kind of other things to splash
for and what it looks like and

637
00:42:43,640 --> 00:42:46,560
how it's way cool.
And whether it's people into

638
00:42:46,560 --> 00:42:52,160
their UFO stuff or whether it's
channeling stuff or whether

639
00:42:52,400 --> 00:42:58,480
whatever they're into, you know,
what it is not is hey, here's

640
00:42:58,480 --> 00:43:02,280
our our world history.
They could truly get everyone on

641
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:04,840
the same page.
It's written by celestials.

642
00:43:05,120 --> 00:43:09,200
Until we care about that, you
know we're going to do.

643
00:43:09,440 --> 00:43:13,160
Yeah, no, right.
It has to remain credible.

644
00:43:13,440 --> 00:43:17,400
And if it starts shooting off
into this era of mysticism and

645
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,040
as you say, shamanism, that
actually is going to work

646
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,560
against the Uranto book.
It should never be perceived as

647
00:43:22,920 --> 00:43:25,560
a mystical experience or a
supernatural.

648
00:43:25,840 --> 00:43:28,840
It's got to be grounded in in
comprehensive reality.

649
00:43:28,840 --> 00:43:32,040
It's got to be a matter of fact.
It's got to make the universe

650
00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,280
look intelligent.
And right now, by the way, I'm

651
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:37,360
seeing a lot of work that
Stephen Meyer is doing out some

652
00:43:37,360 --> 00:43:41,400
of the stuff that's the and, and
what he is trying to do is the

653
00:43:41,560 --> 00:43:44,400
the concept is that the mind
preceded matter.

654
00:43:44,640 --> 00:43:48,360
The mind, the matter is a result
of mind planning.

655
00:43:48,800 --> 00:43:52,200
And that's a big jump in
scientific communities right now

656
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,720
because up until recently,
everybody assumed there was just

657
00:43:55,720 --> 00:43:59,480
a Big Bang and that was it and
accidental or unintentional

658
00:43:59,480 --> 00:44:01,960
causation.
But now at least scientists are

659
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:04,840
starting to grapple with maybe
there is something going on

660
00:44:04,840 --> 00:44:07,040
here.
Maybe the universe is logical.

661
00:44:07,240 --> 00:44:11,840
So anyway, any closing thoughts?
You know that that's not really

662
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:14,040
what the Urantia book has to
offer.

663
00:44:14,160 --> 00:44:18,360
It has to offer history.
What our world desperately needs

664
00:44:18,360 --> 00:44:23,000
right now is not a clear and
convincing explanation of how

665
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:27,840
the universe started locally
billions of years ago.

666
00:44:28,080 --> 00:44:33,480
What we really need is a common
belief about how humanity

667
00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:38,640
evolved over the last few
100,000 years, how the races

668
00:44:38,640 --> 00:44:44,240
develop, what's the nature of
our genetic diversity and

669
00:44:44,280 --> 00:44:48,600
evolutionary destiny.
This is where the rubber meets

670
00:44:48,600 --> 00:44:50,800
the road.
This is what the Branch

671
00:44:50,800 --> 00:44:56,080
Revelation has to offer.
And people don't really want to

672
00:44:56,080 --> 00:45:00,000
talk about that, but that's
what's desperately needed in the

673
00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:01,960
world.
That's why we had the whole DEI

674
00:45:01,960 --> 00:45:03,840
craziness going on.
Right, Right.

675
00:45:03,840 --> 00:45:05,600
No, you're absolutely right.
And it's funny because I've

676
00:45:05,600 --> 00:45:09,000
recently started reading part
three from the beginning and it

677
00:45:09,000 --> 00:45:11,960
is, it is kind of, yeah, I
totally agree with you.

678
00:45:11,960 --> 00:45:15,840
I think that actually right now
probably has more value to the

679
00:45:15,840 --> 00:45:19,960
reader at large than anything in
Part 2 and Part 1, the third

680
00:45:19,960 --> 00:45:21,920
part of the book.
If everybody, if they taught

681
00:45:21,920 --> 00:45:25,720
that in school, for every kid to
read and absorb, we would have a

682
00:45:25,720 --> 00:45:29,120
completely different all of this
racial stigma stuff would go

683
00:45:29,120 --> 00:45:31,640
right out the door.
And we would really feel

684
00:45:31,640 --> 00:45:35,880
connected to humanity all over
the world.

685
00:45:36,000 --> 00:45:38,840
Everyone's story would be our
story.

686
00:45:39,160 --> 00:45:42,480
You know, that that that's
what's so desperately needed on

687
00:45:42,480 --> 00:45:46,880
a spiritual level is that we can
plainly see that when people

688
00:45:46,880 --> 00:45:52,120
talk politics, they don't talk
about it from the perspective of

689
00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:58,560
this is my story, this, this is
our collective story about

690
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:01,200
humanity there.
There's always a side to be

691
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:03,360
picked.
And this is what we're trying to

692
00:46:03,360 --> 00:46:09,160
transcend on a spiritual level
in order to learn how to be good

693
00:46:09,160 --> 00:46:12,240
citizens and to live peacefully
with each other.

694
00:46:12,240 --> 00:46:14,560
Yeah, hey, there's a little bit
of sangig in all of us, you

695
00:46:14,880 --> 00:46:16,520
know.
Yeah, exactly.

696
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:20,440
We need to get a sense of of our
our collective history and our

697
00:46:20,440 --> 00:46:22,880
collective destiny in order to
do that.

698
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:27,920
Otherwise, we are left with all
manner of nationalistic,

699
00:46:27,920 --> 00:46:33,600
tribalistic behaviors.
Yeah, it's really good to catch

700
00:46:33,600 --> 00:46:35,560
up with you.
And I thank you again for for

701
00:46:35,560 --> 00:46:37,360
coming on the program.
Thank you, Jim.